latitude 40.8510 longitude -96.7592 altitude 362 meters
Posts
3,925
Introducing the Singularities:
We haven't showcased a Wayne Wendel design in a while...
Dayton's new PS220 Point Source driver in a MLTL floorstander:
Shown here unfinished, and sporting dimensions of 9.5" x 43.5" x 18", with an internal volume of 90 liters. In spite of its relatively low Q the MLTL provides impressive low end extension, with a modeled f3 of 40 Hz, and an f6 of 30 Hz. Certainly they provide sufficient extension and SPL for most civilized music reproduction.
How do they sound? Like a gravitational singularity, they draw you in...
Suffice to say that Wayne and I are both quite enamored with them. They definitely do not need a tweeter when listened to on axis, and the bass, while being a tiny bit reticent for my taste, is quite articulate. I'm sure Wayne will elaborate...
Mids- pure paper baby, pure paper. If you like pure unadulterated Jim Croce, Heart, or Jefferson Airplane, reproduced the way they recorded, these will do the trick. I also suspect that Jazz, Blues and Opera will be a big hit. Mids are very coherant. A touch forward, which is to be expected, and full in a way that isn't annoying.
Highs - Who would have thought that a whizzer cone....I reapeat, a whizzer cone could sound that good. It has plenty of heat for those that like more sizzle.
Bass - Let's be honest, it isn't going to give you tachycardia, and you aren't going to be knocked out of your chair, but the bass is all there in the 3.17Cuft MLTL cabinet, even when 2' out from the wall. Anyone that has listened to Josh Groben's version of Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring can rest assured that it gets all the way down, and interestingly enough, it resolves Sarah MacLaughlins voice excellently alongside the violin (which hasn't been the case in some speakers costing 5 times as much that I have heard).
Sound stage is excellent. Horizontally, they have a small window of forgiveness, but it's there so you don't need to have your head in a vice completely. Vertically, the highs go bye-bye pretty quick. With a single point source, they have a special magic all their own.
Pro's - Simple, elegant and listenable. Easily driven with low power amps. Excellent Dynamics! More detail than you would expect from a paper cone.
Con's - Will not go very loud without falling apart. They get plenty loud enough for me, but if you want something that plays loud, this isn't for you. Bass isn't as solid as I like it, but it is there, and it goes deep. A sub may be needed for the smooth jazz crowd, or the electronica minded.
Best Part? - Tweeking is simple. With just two components - an inductor and a resistor, a guy can dip his feet into the design pool without getting in over his head. The price of admission is light as well. I liked them with 2.7mH of inductance and 13 ohms of resistance, but you can let your tastes and room decide what works best for you, without doing a total re-design, or getting impedance issues.
I had always wanted to do a full range design, and not a small one either. I just didn't want to pay $1,200 bucks for an exotic full ranger. For the price, this is an excellent way to feed the habit, try something new and enjoy a different type of sound.
Haven't decided. I may go with something old-school. I think I want to keep the color fairly light to keep the birch highlights visible, and very little shine on the clear coat. I may just hand-rub some tung oil, or go with some shellac. Opinions and suggestions are always welcome.
is it just the photography that makes them look tapered? the drivers look to be down quite a bit from the top, reasoning? the port is on the back? did you experiment at all with the rear firing tweeter to fill in the highs off axis?
i wonder if a red mohogany stain wood accent the golden phase plug.
nice job guys.
ps, did the sound better with the 50wpc or 100wpc marrantz? how was it with the first cut on your test cd?
"Listening to music is perhaps the greatest and most profound source of happiness i have ever known. As soon as that music starts, every dollar becomes well spent, time becomes precious and there is no place i would rather be." Henry Rollins stereophile. august 2011
Haven't decided. I may go with something old-school. I think I want to keep the color fairly light to keep the birch highlights visible, and very little shine on the clear coat. I may just hand-rub some tung oil, or go with some shellac. Opinions and suggestions are always welcome.
WayneW
The 2 ways in my avatar are finished with 3 coats of Deft rattle can sanding sealer, sanding in between coats. Then 3 coats of Deft rattle can semi-gloss lacquer. Very quick drying - all done in one day. Although I love the way they sound, I get many more compliments on the finish.
is it just the photography that makes them look tapered? the drivers look to be down quite a bit from the top, reasoning? the port is on the back? did you experiment at all with the rear firing tweeter to fill in the highs off axis?
i wonder if a red mohogany stain wood accent the golden phase plug.
nice job guys.
ps, did the sound better with the 50wpc or 100wpc marrantz? how was it with the first cut on your test cd?
They aren't tapered, it's a photographically induced illusion. The woofer is placed down from the top to facilitate the T-Line. Port could be on the front, but placing it on the back can give a slight increase in bass response if they aren't close to a wall. We only ran them on the Arcam. The Marantz's didn't get fired up for the testing.
Not sure what the decor is but something I haven't seen is a white washed finish. Just a small amount would allow the tan to show through then coated with a clear coat would be nice. Just a different idea if that's what your looking for.
Nice to hear a couple guys who know what they're talking about not be afraid to give subjective opinions! Wayne, I'd like to hear you compare them directly to the Monitors you had at Iowa - specifically in terms of image layers and depth/width, and how their tonal balance compares.
Just rub some Waterlox on those cabs Wayne, that's all you need.
It's hard to do that DoubleTap. I didn't have the monitors with me to do a side by side comparison. It's difficult to put in words, but they seem to be very coherent. The sound stage isn't big, and it isn't little, it just is. I suspect that part of that is a function of a single point source. I can see, now, why there is a big following of full range drivers. When the entire range is produced from on spot, it seems to tie everything together in a unique and enjoyable way. They don't have anywhere near the bass that the SeaScans have, but they are very comparible in the midrange. The voicing is completely different. Anyone that has heard the SeaScans, TriTrix, Statements, Mavericks, Exclamations, AviaTrix, Scrappy's, Cinderella's or the 851's knows that Curt and I have a certain preferrence in voicing speakers. I don't like the tweeters very hot, and I like the vocals as detail oriented as possible without being forward or recessed. One of the observations that we routinely see on our scorecards is that we don't set our tweeters hot enough, although I had a great conversation with Ed LaFontaine about that (short story is that if you turn your tweeters down, your ears become more sensitive and thus, you don't need to run them quite as hot to get the amount of sybillance and tinkle you like...same with bass, although that takes much longer to do, and bass doesnt' hurt my ears like hot tweeters do). All that being said, it remains difficult to put them into the same category as a speaker like the SeaScans, or the AviaTrix. Kind of like trying to compare a Porsche GT3 with a Lincoln Continental. They are both cars, but one is for going fast and the other is for going comfortably.
Thanks Wayne ... I ask because I've heard quite a few single driver setups, and they all do some things very well but what they seem to lack is the refinement of multi-way designs. I have yet to hear a single driver that's as transparent and balanced as a multi, or one that paints the expansive soundstage. Since I heard your SeaScans and liked them a lot - your voicing taste is clearly very close to my own - I'm very interested in how you think the two compare in those ways.
Are you saying the single driver is a Lincoln? Gee that doesn't sound very exciting
Thanks Wayne ... I ask because I've heard quite a few single driver setups, and they all do some things very well but what they seem to lack is the refinement of multi-way designs. I have yet to hear a single driver that's as transparent and balanced as a multi, or one that paints the expansive soundstage. Since I heard your SeaScans and liked them a lot - your voicing taste is clearly very close to my own - I'm very interested in how you think the two compare in those ways.
Are you saying the single driver is a Lincoln? Gee that doesn't sound very exciting
Refinement is a good word to describe a well executed multi-way design. Lack of refinement could be a good word to use with a full-ranger, but I don't know if it applies to this one. It is very difficult for a single driver to do everything well, but when you find one that comes close, it sure makes things interesting. Interesting enough that I will be spending some time with them comparing them to my reference speakers to see if there are further tweeks that can be done. I also intend to play them with my Parasound Halo and my Jolida 302A and see if they have an edge with Tubes vs. Solid State. All we used was Curt's Arcam FMJ, which I believe has the most liquid midrange I have ever heard from an amp, but seems to be a touch light on the bass and upper treble compared to other amps I have owned.
I will try to make a list of likes/dislikes when I sit down for some critical listening....which can be hard to schedule with a 3 year old boy and 7 year old girl sword fighting in the same room!!! Plus, I really like to sword fight with them, and I just got a brand new Nerf broad-sword that makes me feel like Conan!
Refinement is a good word to describe a well executed multi-way design. Lack of refinement could be a good word to use with a full-ranger, but I don't know if it applies to this one. It is very difficult for a single driver to do everything well, but when you find one that comes close, it sure makes things interesting. Interesting enough that I will be spending some time with them comparing them to my reference speakers to see if there are further tweeks that can be done. I also intend to play them with my Parasound Halo and my Jolida 302A and see if they have an edge with Tubes vs. Solid State. All we used was Curt's Arcam FMJ, which I believe has the most liquid midrange I have ever heard from an amp, but seems to be a touch light on the bass and upper treble compared to other amps I have owned.
I will try to make a list of likes/dislikes when I sit down for some critical listening....which can be hard to schedule with a 3 year old boy and 7 year old girl sword fighting in the same room!!! Plus, I really like to sword fight with them, and I just got a brand new Nerf broad-sword that makes me feel like Conan!
Crom!!!!
Whaaa? Didn't you get the memo ... all amps sound the same! It's been proven in ABCDEFG Triple-deaf testing.
Slay those shorties and get back with us on some side by side comparo's. I'm very interested in subjective opinions.
I'll take Wayne and Curt's thoughtful observations over measurements to tell me how something actually sounds any time.
Unfortunately, now, they have me intrigued with these things...... just when I'm wondering what to do with my KT88 SE amp. Been sitting too long.
As if there is not enough to build already.
Hey Maynard, you remember what I said about the Malbec's? I forgot that I was listening to speakers and just listened to music....these come pretty close to that. I haven't run them on Tubes yet, but I suspect that the MLTL version will be the best option. I got some goosebumps from Jim Croces guitar playing in Photographs and Memories. Very few speakers give me goosebumps....
BTW - I had a glass of Malbec with Steak Gorgonzola at an Italian restaraunt about 2 weeks ago...my first glass. Actually, I had half a bottle. That is really good wine!
In case someone wants to jump in and build them as they are now, another set of ears and opinions will be much appreciated!
Driver must be located 10" down from top...the center of the driver is 10" from the top.
Bottom edge of the Port must be located 2" up from bottom of the cabinet (inside of cabinet) or if you are using 3/4" material, the bottom edge must be 2.75" up. If using 4" dia. PVC which has an outside diameter of 4.5", then your center measurement from the outside edge of the bottom of the cabinet is 5"
The width can be changed and the depth can be changed, but the height must remain constant as must the location of the driver and the port.
I think we used about 1.5 lbs of stuffing per cabinet. Some above the driver, some behind and some below. We left the area around the port clear. I used window pane bracing, but feel free to get your freak on with that. I will draw something up and post it tomorrow.
Introducing the Singularities:
![$vboptions[bbtitle]](images/techTalkHeader-leftGray2.jpg)
![$vboptions[bbtitle]](images/techTalkHeaderRepeatGray3.jpg)
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by waynew
