So I joined the "B2031P Club"...

[2leftthumbs]

It looks like pe has the passive monitor marked down to $143 and the active 197.

[Deward Hastings]

It looks like pe has the passive monitor marked down to $143 and the active 197.

Interesting . . . they used to price them as pairs (B&H still does, at $189.99 and $359.00 *per pair* for the passive and active respectively, with free shipping on both).

It has looked for some time as if it's "end of run" for all versions of the 2030 and 2031 . . . everyone is just clearing inventory until the introduction of the "next generation" (samples of which have already been seen in other national markets).

[killersoundz]

Interesting . . . they used to price them as pairs (B&H still does, at $189.99 and $359.00 *per pair* for the passive and active respectively, with free shipping on both).

It has looked for some time as if it's "end of run" for all versions of the 2030 and 2031 . . . everyone is just clearing inventory until the introduction of the "next generation" (samples of which have already been seen in other national markets).

It's seemed that way for 2 or more years now. Behringer discontinued them 2 maybe 3 years ago if I recall correctly, and introduced the new line. Looks like the retailers are still trying to sell the inventory.

[Deward Hastings]

Looks like the retailers are still trying to sell the inventory.

Yes. And the B&H pricing makes it look like they're sitting on a bunch of the "P" version (or got a "deal" on the last batch from Behringer). US introduction of the "new' version must be coming soon (of course it's already on the Behringer site . . .) . . .

[Jeff B.]

Can you do much better than the $189 price at B&H??? I might rather have a 2nd pair for mucking around with rather than cutting up my only pair...

$120 will get you a pair of the B2031A's without the amps, new in original cartons.

We also have one of the amps that were removed working perfectly which we will sell too, but the other amp has a problem - the lowpass hisses and the tweeter output is high. This is why we removed them from the active monitors we had built and switched to passive crossovers with external amps. We will sell the amps too, if someone wants them.

Jeff

[dantheman]

Next gen is here as of yesterday: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...1A_150W_8.html

You can see here how their little brother stacks up against some of the competition here: http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/

You make the call. If past performance is any indication, these should be alright.

Dan

[Deward Hastings]

Next gen is here as of yesterday:

Well there you have it . . . and they moved the port to the rear and added RCA inputs. I'm surprised, though, at no Class D amps, since they have them now in almost all the PA lines . . .

And look at the price on the B1030A . . . $199.95/pair ! ! !

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...5W_Active.html

(PE has them now too, but for 40% more . . .)

Simply unbeatable. Except for custom cabinet work (or just for fun) I can't see *any* reason to DIY "inexpensive" small box loudspeakers any more . . . I mean, box, two drivers, crossover and amps, all for $100 ? ? ? There goes the "budget class" . . .

[OlderMongrel]

Well, the last few years, I just assume DIY is supposed to cost more. That's OK for me, as I am hooked more on the process than the result.

John

[Deward Hastings]

Well, the last few years, I just assume DIY is supposed to cost more. That's OK for me, as I am hooked more on the process than the result.

At the low end, with the economies of scale that Behringer enjoys, that has to be true. Of course a lot of "low end" commercial offerings are poorly engineered junk, where a combination of incompetence and price-point "design" push performance below acceptability. That's not the case with the Behringer speakers, though. They've got every design detail (that we talk about) right, and quality components, too. And there are others like them . . .

Upscale, though, it's different. The economies of scale shrink, and the impact of amortized design and marketing cost, "local" labor cost, profit margin, shipping cost and dealer markup grows (of course the DIYer sees some of those costs in component prices, too). Hard to know where the shift is, but I think that there does come a point at which you can build a better speaker for the price of the assembled components than you can buy for that price. That point is obviously lower if you don't count the cabinet (cabinet making obviously being a "hobby" endeavor), and you must account your time as "fun" or "entertainment" without any dollar value attached. But then, people don't count their time when they go "shopping" for pre-builts, do they . . .

We mostly do it for fun, for the "learning experience", for the satisfaction that comes from "I built it". There are some obvious exceptions . . . custom fits, designs optimized for the room or for particular music styles come to mind. If you favor full range dipoles it's either Magnepan or roll-your-own. Subwoofers may be another exception . . . $250 worth of driver and plate amp can probably at least match any $250 "commercial" sub . . . but you do still have to build the box, or cut the holes in the wall if it's IB.

On the up side the components available to the home builder are better, and less expensive, than they used to be, and the design tools *far* better, making DIY much less of a "hit or miss" proposition. But unless you plan to build a lot of (different) speakers the cost of the measurement rig and software becomes part of what you build. The DIY advantage there is that you get to measure in your own listening environment, and adjust accordingly. That may be the "next frontier" of DIY home audio . . .

[Pete Schumacher ®]

At the low end, with the economies of scale that Behringer enjoys, that has to be true. Of course a lot of "low end" commercial offerings are poorly engineered junk, where a combination of incompetence and price-point "design" push performance below acceptability. That's not the case with the Behringer speakers, though. They've got every design detail (that we talk about) right, and quality components, too. And there are others like them . . .

Upscale, though, it's different. The economies of scale shrink, and the impact of amortized design and marketing cost, "local" labor cost, profit margin, shipping cost and dealer markup grows (of course the DIYer sees some of those costs in component prices, too). Hard to know where the shift is, but I think that there does come a point at which you can build a better speaker for the price of the assembled components than you can buy for that price. That point is obviously lower if you don't count the cabinet (cabinet making obviously being a "hobby" endeavor), and you must account your time as "fun" or "entertainment" without any dollar value attached. But then, people don't count their time when they go "shopping" for pre-builts, do they . . .

We mostly do it for fun, for the "learning experience", for the satisfaction that comes from "I built it". There are some obvious exceptions . . . custom fits, designs optimized for the room or for particular music styles come to mind. If you favor full range dipoles it's either Magnepan or roll-your-own. Subwoofers may be another exception . . . $250 worth of driver and plate amp can probably at least match any $250 "commercial" sub . . . but you do still have to build the box, or cut the holes in the wall if it's IB.

On the up side the components available to the home builder are better, and less expensive, than they used to be, and the design tools *far* better, making DIY much less of a "hit or miss" proposition. But unless you plan to build a lot of (different) speakers the cost of the measurement rig and software becomes part of what you build. The DIY advantage there is that you get to measure in your own listening environment, and adjust accordingly. That may be the "next frontier" of DIY home audio . . .

Why they can offer them for that price has to do as much with the "usually" inferior enclosure as much as the economy of scale. Weight adds cost to shipping, and a lightweight, less than robust cabinet, will save a lot of dough. That's where DIY can usually beat commercial stuff, especially the "budget class" like this Behringer.

Still, pick up a pair and then DIY some cabinet improvements. Tough to beat for sure.

[killersoundz]

Why they can offer them for that price has to do as much with the "usually" inferior enclosure as much as the economy of scale. Weight adds cost to shipping, and a lightweight, less than robust cabinet, will save a lot of dough. That's where DIY can usually beat commercial stuff, especially the "budget class" like this Behringer.

Still, pick up a pair and then DIY some cabinet improvements. Tough to beat for sure.

I don't believe the B2031's are "lightweight for shipping" by any means...

[critofur]

A pair of these suckers weighs ~ 50 lbs.

My impressions so far: they kick my little plastic PC speakers ***. Under $200 shipped for a pair, and they put any speaker I've ever heard at Best Buy to shame*.

I've got them set up angled in "cross fire", turned them in a little further to take some of the hotness off the high end... Bass is satisfying, particularly the mid bass. Not sure if I could maybe boost the bottom a little to alleviate the desire for a sub or not. (Boost the output at 35 - 45 Hz and bring it down at ~ 100 Hz).

These cabinets are as thick, and, as well braced as most of the DIY projects I've seen.

I don't know if it's my bias, but so far, I think they've got a little of that "metal tweeter sound" that I don't like.

Now Playing: Bloodhound Gang "The Bad Touch"

*Not that that's saying a lot.

[Deward Hastings]

I don't believe the B2031's are "lightweight for shipping" by any means...

Seriously. I just weighed a B2030A at 19 3/4 lbs . . . there is nothing "inferior" or "less than robust" about the cabinet. It's built like a tank. There's no evidence of skimping on the box. Some of the "pro" PA stuff is light by design, because that's what the people who haul it a couple times a week want. It's still pretty robust, considering . . .

It's essentially a mature "commodity" market. On the "consumer" side that means that a lot of it has been "costed" down to garbage, but Behringer seems to have avoided that trap. It would take a *lot* more money in parts and assembly to get any significant improvement in sound. The *appearance* of the cabinet leaves something to be desired, though (unless you prefer flat black . . .). It's no contest with some of the better DIY cabinet work I've seen here . . .

[Jeff B.]

$120 will get you a pair of the B2031A's without the amps, new in original cartons.

We also have one of the amps that were removed working perfectly which we will sell too, but the other amp has a problem - the lowpass hisses and the tweeter output is high. This is why we removed them from the active monitors we had built and switched to passive crossovers with external amps. We will sell the amps too, if someone wants them.

Jeff

Since there are such strong sales right now, we'll go $100 for the pair of speaker with cabinets and drivers. You pay shipping, but if you're close to central indiana you can pick them up, or I can bring them to InDIYana in April. This is pretty cheap given that eveything is there except a crossover and that shouldn't be too hard to build. You will need to fix the back where the plate amps were mounted. However, this could be done with sandpaper, filler, paint, and some binding posts. The amps were surface mounted with the wires just going through a small hole, so it's not like a you have to fix a lot back there.

If this is too much, then I may just have to fix'em up for myself.

Jeff B.

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Seriously. I just weighed a B2030A at 19 3/4 lbs . . . there is nothing "inferior" or "less than robust" about the cabinet. It's built like a tank.

I've picked up a 7" two-way recently that was 65 pounds, each cabinet.

Not that 20 pounds is necessarily wuss, but you're not going to get the same inert enclosure as a DIY'er can get. Not at that price point.

[johnnyrichards]

I've picked up a 7" two-way recently that was 65 pounds, each cabinet.

Not that 20 pounds is necessarily wuss, but you're not going to get the same inert enclosure as a DIY'er can get. Not at that price point.

But to be completely fair, Pete - you probably would be pushing it at that price point on a DIY speaker to hit 65 pounds per cabinet as well. One of the advantages of ignoring cabinet costs when we compare to commercial, I guess

[Deward Hastings]

I've picked up a 7" two-way recently that was 65 pounds, each cabinet.

Doesn't mean they're any more "robust" if you're talking (as I suspect you are) about "towers", as opposed to equivalent sized boxes . . .

[dantheman]

The baffle on the B2031P is over an inch thick for the woofer half. Certainly no slouch. The rest is 3/4" I believe.

Critofur, have you stuffed the ports w/cotton yet? I don't really believe in metal tweeter sound--not that I don't think the Behringer have some treble issues. They do. They have significant diffraction and it gets worse off axis. The Mackie with a titanium tweeter are smooth as room temp butter. Use a couple layers and leave the cotton hanging out a little bit. The only way to completely eliminate their diffractive issues would require some cabinet reworking I'd think, but possibly some 1" acoustic foam wrapped around the front/sides of the speaker would do the trick. I've just been too lazy to perfect these things any further. Contentment is the enemy of motivation.

Dan

[Pete Schumacher ®]

Doesn't mean they're any more "robust" if you're talking (as I suspect you are) about "towers", as opposed to equivalent sized boxes . . .

I'm talking about stand mount monitors, with constrained layer construction, not towers. And without a doubt, far more robust than the Behringer.

And as we've seen from photos of the inside, there's nothing magic there. There's certainly room for improvement, including adding a constraining layer.

Listen, I'm not bashing them. Don't take it the wrong way. But without a lot of additional cost, a DIY'er is going to be able to make a superior cabinet, that will improve the performance of those drivers. Of that, I have no doubt.

[Deward Hastings]

there's nothing magic there.

There's nothing "magic" in any speaker . . .

There's certainly room for improvement, including adding a constraining layer.

Well yes, you could glue a layer of 3/4 plywood all around the Behringer, and add a roundover to help with diffraction. The option to make a cabinet heavier is always there. I think the non-magic "law of diminishing returns" might apply . . .

By way of comparison; my 2-way center channel (in a 1 cu ft PE curved side box) is close to three times the volume of the 2030A . . . the box and drivers (crossover and amps are external) total 32 lbs. That box alone sells for $150 (less at the occasional sale) and has three times that in drivers in it. And then there's the cost of the crossover and amp. In retrospect I sometimes wonder "why?" . . . does it sound that much better for the movie voice tracks? It's a lot easier to justify the cost of my mains . . .

The Behringer boxes are well into the range that most would consider "quite good" . . . astonishing, even, considering the price . . . they're certainly more than I could knock out in an afternoon (or a weekend, if you count gluing and sanding and painting and and and . . .).

I can only say I DIY for fun . . . it's certainly not to save money. And except for the ORION I can't say it's to build a "better" speaker. I'm going to try a miniDSP on that "center" of mine, to see how it compares with the analog crossover I'm using now. Not to 'improve" anything, just for "fun" . . . to see if I can hear a difference.