To test how the FW168 would sound with a different tweeter than the SB29RDCN I decided to combine it with a dome tweeter for the surrounds I built for my HT setup. My list price target was to keep the driver cost to below $150.00 in drivers for the pair. I built the enclosures out of old Yamaha speaker cabs I bought off of Ebay for $25.00 and some cherry wood boards that I bought for $20.00 again off Ebay. I have a BoM made up at work as well as a baffle layout that I'll add tomorrow but total cost drivers and crossover parts is around $220.00.
So what do you get for your $220.00 spent? Well it's a 10 liter bookshelf speaker that measures very close to the simulated FR below. To Quote Mike Z from today's listening session when he found out they'll be used for surround duty "That's a Damn Shame that's what that is". I think they're a great sounding speaker that can be built on a decent budget so hopefully others will give them a try.
Comments from Midwest Audio fest judges:
3. Fairly big sound from a little box, Good depth and imaging, Nice balance.
2. Vocals were very nice, Pretty good bass for a little speaker, Seemed a little bright on the top end.
1. Nice sound, sounds bigger than they are, Very good.
Take it easy
Jay
Last edited by Brewski; 08-11-2011 at 01:01 PM.
Reason: Updated with MWAF comments
"I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden
Thanks to Jay for luggin' em down to me casa for a listen today.
I will say they are devastating for very short money. Musical, with great dynamic impact and strong overall bass even if it does miss the bottom octave.
I did expect them to be a bedroom speaker, or at least a kids room, but it is a dang shame they are sitting as surrounds. They meet my 10x rule and would hang with anything $1500-$2000 in the 6" bookshelf world.
They resolve plenty of information, and the little vifa tweeter is a real mind-blower. Smooth and extended.
More importantly they represent everything this hobby is about. Jay took a pair of old, beat up speakers, and required the cabinets to a usable form, added high WAF with the baffles, and they sound great!
What's "wrong" with them? Nothing. I really think Jay balanced his compromises well and for every flaw, there are two strengths. Well done.
Thanks for the comments guys... I told Mike while I was down his way, after he told me his listening impressions, that I'm thinking five of these could make for a really nice HT setup with a sub. Plus turn the sub off and you've got pretty sweet speakers for music.
If it wasn't for the fact I'm going to rev the Ruinations these would become my mains. Note: They will be my mains till the DX25 ruinations are ready...
Mike, thanks for posting and hosting the measurements.
Take it easy
Jay
"I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden
The Dali/Vifa buyout tweeter I used in Driscoll is a virtual drop in for this one. In fact, I have the BC25SG15 sitting on the shelf, and they measured identical. You just have to shake your head at what less than $15 can buy these days.
Here's the additional files I have saved for the speakers in case anyone wants to build them. I'll also try to get an internal shot since it was suggested I snag a picture with the the driver out of the way.
Take it easy
Jay
"I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden
Have you noticed any real change with and without the LCR trap on the tweeter?
Johnny,
In the sims it looked border line if it was going to be needed or not. Since I'm taking them to Dayton I figured I'd go ahead and build with the LCR in place but in the sims without the LCR the null when reversing tweeter polarity still looks very close to being the same so I figured I'd post the BoM up as price with and without in case someone wanted to try them without the LCR. That way if they felt the tweeter was straining they then have the values needed for the LCR I used.
Also because it might get asked If the baffles were made taller the trimming of the tweeter face plate might not be needed. If you want to go this route I'd keep the tweeters offset from the side and top of the baffle at 2.75" to avoid needing to make changes to the crossover. Cabinet size wise if they were made in a 14L enclosure or .5 cubic feet They'd deliver more bass but I was trying to keep them smaller for my purposes.
Take it easy
Jay
Last edited by Brewski; 05-02-2011 at 11:47 AM.
"I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden
Hmm This was responding to Fastbike's post but I'm not sure where it went?
I'm going to need to add an attachment in a min but the additional components LCR that your seeing of 22uF, 5.6 Ohms, .70 mH is there to flatten the tweeters impedance at it's FS. If you try pushing a tweeter too low you'll hear it start to strain and certain tones can become congested as if the singer had a cold etc... In the attachment the tweeters impedance would normally follow the blue path but with the LCR in place the impedance is following the teal instead.
The Tweeter's FS in this case is around ~1250 Hz. The tweeter is crossing that point about 15 db's below where the speaker is normally operating. Even though I'm using a steep crossover (1700 Bessel 4th order) acoustically I was concerned that this could be too close to the tweeter's FS so I added an LCR just in case being that close to the FS would cause a problem.
In the sims it looks like it may be ok without an LCR and from talking (or rather board posting) with Johnny and reading Lou's posts on the tweeter I think it may work without it but for the added parts I didn't want to regret not having it if the speaker did something wrong at Dayton.
Take it easy
Jay
Last edited by Brewski; 05-02-2011 at 01:48 PM.
Reason: responding to Fastbike's post but I'm not sure where it went?
"I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden
The Dali/Vifa buyout tweeter I used in Driscoll is a virtual drop in for this one. In fact, I have the BC25SG15 sitting on the shelf, and they measured identical. You just have to shake your head at what less than $15 can buy these days.
Nicely done.
That tweeter represents a HUGE value. Diamond in the rough. It has all the resoultion of a $40 or $50 tweeter without the grain or harshness less expensive tweeters tend exhibit. They also do not go the oppsite direction which is soft and rounded sounding. I will likely use them in designs in the future. It is like 1/2 way beteen a silkie, and an SB19.
That tweeter represents a HUGE value. Diamond in the rough. It has all the resoultion of a $40 or $50 tweeter without the grain or harshness less expensive tweeters tend exhibit. They also do not go the oppsite direction which is soft and rounded sounding. I will likely use them in designs in the future. It is like 1/2 way beteen a silkie, and an SB19.
I too have discovered what a great value they are ... for $14, they sound fantastic!
Jay -- I have been wondering for days what the light stripe on your baffles is for. I was about to post a question, and then it occurred to me that maybe it represents the head of foam on a glass of ale?
Jay -- I have been wondering for days what the light stripe on your baffles is for. I was about to post a question, and then it occurred to me that maybe it represents the head of foam on a glass of ale?
No although I do like your thinking I'm going to have to keep my eye on ebay auctions for larger pieces of cherry with sap wood in it....
When I bought the lot off of Ebay one of the boards had a large strip of sap wood. The other board board had a very small strip of white (sap wood I think). I'd decided I'd like to somewhat book match the small stripes. I then tore out one of the round overs with the smaller stripe so I ended up using the other board with the larger stripe and decided to make the best of a bad situation by some what book matching them. My wife loves the stripe though so it's not all bad.
I do love the idea of the white being the head of beer so I'll have to keep my eyes open to see if I could make that happen.
Take it easy
Jay
Last edited by Brewski; 05-03-2011 at 12:19 AM.
"I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden
I can put one up in about 15 mins... I'll need to pull the driver out and snap a picture.
Mike had suggested I snag a picture of the guts of the speaker but I'd been lazy on it till now... I'd added a dowel brace from side to side to help brace the cabs sides. The vertical brace in the middle is bracing from a portion of the original Yamaha baffle to the back wall of the speaker since it's more thin than I was hoping for when I bought the cabs. I wrapped the leads to the speakers in the crossover since I was afraid of possible shorts.
Take it easy
Jay
"I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden
I had a request for a larger front ported enclosure model that I worked on in Google sketchup and figured I should post up in case others wanted to try building them in this format. I've not built the larger enclosure but I'm hoping we'll get feedback on the build as it progresses. The builder wanted to avoid needing to trim the tweeter face plate, Up the internal volume to closer to 13L, and have the speaker be front ported.
Take it easy
Jay
Added a shot that I just got via email of the enclosures.
Last edited by Brewski; 06-08-2011 at 03:05 PM.
"I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden
I had a request for a larger front ported enclosure model that I worked on in Google sketchup and figured I should post up in case others wanted to try building them in this format. I've not built the larger enclosure but I'm hoping we'll get feedback on the build as it progresses. The builder wanted to avoid needing to trim the tweeter face plate, Up the internal volume to closer to 13L, and have the speaker be front ported.
Take it easy
Jay
Added a shot that I just got via email of the enclosures.
my daughter goes to UVM...i'll ask her if she has heard thee guys. They sound great to me!!
Wow. Them are some beauties. And I bet they sound great. Just to throw in my two cents. PE and Radio shack (and a lot of other places for that matter) carry a pair of cutting pliers called Flush cuts (Ill include the link below). You use them to cut your zip ties off flush with the head of the zip tie so it doesn leave that jagged exposed edge. It serves 2 main purposes. One is that it looks a whole lot better and two is that edge can be sharp like a razor blade. In my experience with them that is spot on to. We use them constantly for things at work and Ive walked away at the end of the day and my forearms would be shredded. This is in telephone switches with all the wiring ran in racks above the ground (think horizontal ladders). These cheap pliers really do the trick. Plus they come in handy for a lot of things. It really dresses up a zip tie to. Also they make zip ties in various colors and it can really add something to the look of a project when they are color matched to the components. Same thing with heat shrink. Just my 2 cents.
Levitation TM's completed BC25SG15/FW168
![$vboptions[bbtitle]](images/techTalkHeader-leftGray2.jpg)
![$vboptions[bbtitle]](images/techTalkHeaderRepeatGray3.jpg)
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Originally Posted by johnnyrichards
