Demand for horn loaded speaker systems.

[dustman96]

Hello all,

I am considering supplementing my income with a small audio business, hopefully focusing on horn loaded residential systems. Problem is I do not really know how much demand there is and I want to find a way to reach more people who would be interested. If anyone has ideas or comments about the feasibility of such an endeavor please feel free to comment. I want to offer much more economically priced systems than are the norm, using non-mainstream recycled materials that have better acoustic characteristics and allow me to cut material cost and construction time, which will result in a much better cost/performance ratio. The construction method opens up a lot of possibilities for different shapes and sizes of horn and reduces the weight of the horn drastically. Thank you for your input.

[Servicetech]

I'd market to Pro-Audio.

[greywarden]

Yeah, horns are big, and there's not alot of people that like big speakers nowadays. I lucked out, I made a few designs for my wife to look at and she picked the biggest ones, and wants then in purple-tinted Bubinga, haha. $$$

[andy19191]

Hello all,

I am considering supplementing my income with a small audio business, hopefully focusing on horn loaded residential systems. Problem is I do not really know how much demand there is and I want to find a way to reach more people who would be interested. If anyone has ideas or comments about the feasibility of such an endeavor please feel free to comment. I want to offer much more economically priced systems than are the norm, using non-mainstream recycled materials that have better acoustic characteristics and allow me to cut material cost and construction time, which will result in a much better cost/performance ratio. The construction method opens up a lot of possibilities for different shapes and sizes of horn and reduces the weight of the horn drastically. Thank you for your input.

Is this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=270-318

the norm? Or something else?

Demand in home audio is often (usually?) driven by marketing effort raising the perceived performance for particular groups of people. For example, this is what has enabled Geddes to sell a few of his horns at "audiophile" prices to a particular group of enthusiasts. If he had not put in those years of promotion would he have sold any of his horns?

How do you intend to create demand since I doubt you have the scale to sell horns profitably for $10 to beat PEs $13.50 on price which, if I understand you correctly, you seem to be proposing. Are you proposing to sell complete speakers or just the horns?

[billfitzmaurice]

Is this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=270-318

the norm? Or something else?

Something else:
http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/product...a-ii-overview/

[Pallas]

IMO, one market that's largely untapped but could be a good niche to fill is wide, shallow speakers with controlled directivity designed to be hung on a wall. Think something like the Danley Sound Labs SH-100, but a lot cheaper.

[Sydney]

IMO, one market that's largely untapped but could be a good niche to fill is wide, shallow speakers with controlled directivity designed to be hung on a wall.

There is a growing attention on focusing sound; using ultrasonics to modulated audio to a spotlight is one example to create personalized zones of sound without noise spill.
More flat on-wall produces are available including decorative "art speakers"
Even the smallest horns are not tiny, nor easy to conceal or hide/blend in the decor.

[MagicO309d]

Corner and corner loaded horn speakers are another niche that seems to be ignored by the mainstream manufacturers.

[Sydney]

Corner and corner loaded horn speakers are another niche that seems to be ignored by the mainstream manufacturers.

During a period of time ( early 70's ) building cabs on consignment ( including corner horns ) - While many liked the sound of a corner horn, the problems were several: cost over a simple rectilinear cab, the size requirements due to horn physics, and lacking a room that accommodated corner horns optimally.
Corner horns work best in big rooms with clear forward corners. The development of the Klipsch Heresy ( 1957 ) was as a center channel to be in response to a problem of a "hole in the center" due to the large room and resultant separation when using Klipschorns.

[djg]

I think the kind of person who wants large horn speakers will want nice wooden cabs. I don't think papier-mache horns are going to sell.

[dustman96]

Andy, that little piece of plastic is not a true horn and many of the horns that are commercially available are seriously compromised designs.

djg, I would hardly call it paper mache. Until you have worked with it you might not understand the beauty of papercrete, you can work it (relatively easily) into whatever shape you desire and make very appealing contours to please the eye. I would prefer not to market to yuppies who just want to show off how pretty their sound system is or impress people with brand names anyway. Not to say I don't appreciate nice craftsmanship.

I considered the pro audio market but that is another can of worms that involves many compromises and complications in design, I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet, honestly.

[Paul Carmody]

The best advice I can give you is the same I'd give to anyone who wants to enter any market. That is: study it for a while. Find out who's selling it. Who's buying it.

In your case, I'd say that means that you need to figure out where people who like having horns in their house hang out on the internets, and eavesdrop on their conversations.

[Pallas]

More flat on-wall produces are available including decorative "art speakers" Even the smallest horns are not tiny, nor easy to conceal or hide/blend in the decor.

But those "art speakers" don't have controlled directivity.

I think a wide but shallow speaker can be reasonable concealed. Especially if it's paintable.

[andy19191]

Andy, that little piece of plastic is not a true horn and many of the horns that are commercially available are seriously compromised designs.

Can you give an example or two of what you would describe as true horns and how your approach may overcome one or two compromises in existing commercial designs. I suspect the potential consumers for your products are rather different to the ones I had initially assumed based on your posting here.

[djg]

dustman, a little humor crept in there. Sorry, Good luck with your project.

[Deward Hastings]

Andy, that little piece of plastic is not a true horn and many of the horns that are commercially available are seriously compromised designs.

All horn designs are "seriously compromised". All loudspeaker designs are "seriously compromised". It's the nature of the beasts. And every loudspeaker designer believes (or will tell you, anyway) that his compromises actually make things better (and the things he couldn't figure out a compromise for don't matter). It's the nature of the beasts.

Lots of designs, from Altec and Klipsch 50 years ago to GedLee and billfitzmaurice today all tell us one thing . . . to be a horn is to be big. And that is bucking the trend of "customer acceptance". And the fewer of the things you make the less the manufacturing "economy of scale" and the greater the cost of marketing and the share going to "overhead", until you finally end up with a boutique item at boutique prices selling into a fickle and often outright crazy market. Lots of well-intentioned speakerbuilders have gone bust trying . . .

Good luck . . .

[dustman96]

Can you give an example or two of what you would describe as true horns and how your approach may overcome one or two compromises in existing commercial designs. I suspect the potential consumers for your products are rather different to the ones I had initially assumed based on your posting here.

I would aim for consumers who are willing to compromise a serious chunk of their living room to have a minimally compromised sound system, I know, that probably cuts down on potential customers by god knows how much but I'm in it more for the art and pleasure of it, for myself and the consumer, and I don't expect to make huge profit margins.

All horn designs are "seriously compromised". All loudspeaker designs are "seriously compromised". It's the nature of the beasts. And every loudspeaker designer believes (or will tell you, anyway) that his compromises actually make things better (and the things he couldn't figure out a compromise for don't matter). It's the nature of the beasts.

Lots of designs, from Altec and Klipsch 50 years ago to GedLee and billfitzmaurice today all tell us one thing . . . to be a horn is to be big. And that is bucking the trend of "customer acceptance". And the fewer of the things you make the less the manufacturing "economy of scale" and the greater the cost of marketing and the share going to "overhead", until you finally end up with a boutique item at boutique prices selling into a fickle and often outright crazy market. Lots of well-intentioned speakerbuilders have gone bust trying . . .

Good luck . . .

Man, you really know how to encourage! Lol. I know you are right though. It is unfortunate that so few consumers know much, if anything, about what they are buying. That is why the hype works.

I'm just gonna start by building one system and see what happens. If no one wants to buy it then I'll be stuck with a sweet system, not so bad...

[fastbike1]

For starters, you probably need to think about you will demonstrate how "minimally compromized" your speakers are compared to others that are the competition. So far you haven't offered anything close to that in this thread.

If you're discouraged now, wait until you sink a bunch of time and capital into the endeavor. At a miniumum the cabinet work will need to be flawless. Take a look at www.vaporsound.com. That's Doubletap's stuff. Can you do work like that? That's the kind of product you will likely need to compete with.

I would aim for consumers who are willing to compromise a serious chunk of their living room to have a minimally compromised sound system, I know, that probably cuts down on potential customers by god knows how much but I'm in it more for the art and pleasure of it, for myself and the consumer, and I don't expect to make huge profit margins.



Man, you really know how to encourage! Lol. I know you are right though. It is unfortunate that so few consumers know much, if anything, about what they are buying. That is why the hype works.

I'm just gonna start by building one system and see what happens. If no one wants to buy it then I'll be stuck with a sweet system, not so bad...

[andy19191]

I would aim for consumers who are willing to compromise a serious chunk of their living room to have a minimally compromised sound system, I know, that probably cuts down on potential customers by god knows how much but I'm in it more for the art and pleasure of it, for myself and the consumer, and I don't expect to make huge profit margins.

You would seem to be talking about large horns for horn enthusiasts and not horns to control the directivity of the higher frequencies for sound quality reasons. Significant numbers of the people here would probably agree that the latter might have a role in a "minimally compromised" system for home audio use but I suspect very few would consider horns to have a role in a "minimally compromised" system at low frequencies.

The demand for your product will be small as you know and it will come from a certain type of person that is enthusiastic about horns which is perhaps more relevant. To successfully create demand I suspect you will have to tap into what generates the enthusiasm rather more than what would sell commodities. I am afraid that my very limited exposure to horn enthusiasts and their hardware has been more baffling than enlightening and I can suggest little of relevance.

[dustman96]

You would seem to be talking about large horns for horn enthusiasts and not horns to control the directivity of the higher frequencies for sound quality reasons.

You are associating directivity (as in shaping your horn to achieve a specific dispersion pattern thereby reducing reflections and so forth) with sound quality? Dealing with reflections should entail particular horn placement along with treatment of the listening environment. Everything I have learned tells me that changing the shape of the sound wave introduces distortions. Maintaining the natural "spherical" shape of the wave seems to be the way to go, which means using round horns with certain expansion contours. Not as much of an issue with long wavelengths. I used the words "minimally compromised" for a reason. Round bass horns with a straight axis are absolutely impractical in almost every application.

Fastbike1: Those are not horns and they are ridiculously expensive and have very poor sensitivity. Is there something on that site I missed? And yes, I can do work like that... It just takes time and the immature need, thus motivation, to impress your friends (along with skill, of course). Good sound does not have to look fancy. If I have to cater to big egos then I would just as soon not embark on this endeavor.