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Thread: MASH cd player

  1. #1
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    Default MASH cd player

    What's the difference between a MASH cd player -1992 era and all the other cd players out there. I picked up a Panasonic MASH cd player for $10. It didn't play until I took it apart and cleaned it up. But what blows my mind is that it sounds better than my Sony ES player that I paid $500.

  2. #2

    Default Re: MASH cd player

    Never heard of it. Got any more information? I'm not an electrical engineer and I don't know what makes one player sound good and another bad, but I'm not really surprised that cheap players can sound really good. I mean, really. CDs were developed in the 70s. It should only cost penny's for a great sounding DAC now days. It's 16bit technology.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    All also says "multi stage noise shaping" on the front panel.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    I wish I had bought one when I had the chance too. That is what MASH stands for you laid out there. MASH has a reputation that keeps on going (and does sound very good!!!!) despite the elimination from the Panasonic/Technics lineup.

    If I could come across a good one, even a single-disc, I would likely buy one myself; preferably a Technics. I still have my Panny porta-CD player with MASH on it. Sounds GREAT!!

    Sorry- I don't know what it really meant but only that it sounded immensely good.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    Quote Originally Posted by generic View Post
    Never heard of it. Got any more information? I'm not an electrical engineer and I don't know what makes one player sound good and another bad, but I'm not really surprised that cheap players can sound really good. I mean, really. CDs were developed in the 70s. It should only cost penny's for a great sounding DAC now days. It's 16bit technology.
    First consumer CD's were produced in the early 80's. Say ca. 1981.

    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith
    "We don't just make a crossover, we make a statement!" - Lawrence Fishburne for Cadillac

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  6. #6

    Default Re: MASH cd player

    I had a technics 5 disc changer that said MASH on it, i thought it sounded great I paid $90 for it new at b-buy. I had it connected with optical cable and would never let people play poorly burned home made cd's because they sounded so bad to me. They thought I was crazy. In comparison, my only cd player now is a ps3 and I think it plays cd's horribly, sorry a bit OT.

  7. #7

    Default Re: MASH cd player

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    First consumer CD's were produced in the early 80's. Say ca. 1981.

    Later,
    Wolf
    That is when they were available to the public, but digital music goes back to the 70s. The ideal even goes back to the 60s at least.

    http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/cd25years.html#HIST

  8. #8
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    Quote Originally Posted by stevedyndiuk View Post
    I had a technics 5 disc changer that said MASH on it, i thought it sounded great I paid $90 for it new at b-buy. I had it connected with optical cable and would never let people play poorly burned home made cd's because they sounded so bad to me. They thought I was crazy. In comparison, my only cd player now is a ps3 and I think it plays cd's horribly, sorry a bit OT.
    I have that same model, and it still works great!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    I knew that sounded familiar. Even being 24-ish I had a personal CD player that had MASH on it. I was barely in my teens, and that's all I remember of it.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: MASH cd player

    Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by generic View Post
    That is when they were available to the public, but digital music goes back to the 70s. The ideal even goes back to the 60s at least.

    http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/cd25years.html#HIST

  11. #11
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    I have a 5 disc Technics with 'MASH'. The thing is built like a tank, and will probably last way longer than the Yamaha I have in the other room. Sounds fine.
    "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas A. Edison

  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    I don't see mine there, I'll get a model # when I get home.
    "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas A. Edison

  14. #14
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    I'm still using the SL-PD647 (5 disk) and it's still going stong. It plays CDs great but 1:1 copies are hit and miss. Anything else is a total no go. The remote only works in conjunction with the receiver.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    IIRC, the early Technics MASH players claim to fame (besides the MASH) part was that they were "one bit" players. I really don't remember the details of the DAC, but I do remember that my Technics MASH player sounded a lot better than the expensive Yamaha it replaced (c. 1989).

    The whole deal was less distortion and actually seemded to live up to the hype. If I'm not mistaken, Bitstream (SACD) is a one bit technology.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    I've had an SL-MC3 60+1 disc Technics CD player for about 15 years now which has the MASH technology. I've never had any other CD player, and now I primarily listen to MP3's or the radio, so I can't even compare it to another player.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    Great stab from the past.
    Philips/Magnavox had labs in Ft Wayne. I got to use a prototype 12" Laservision machine.
    At that time they were also developing a smaller audio disc ( with the intent of replacing the cassette player in automobiles ).
    It became the CD.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    Quote Originally Posted by fastbike1 View Post
    IIRC, the early Technics MASH players claim to fame (besides the MASH) part was that they were "one bit" players. I really don't remember the details of the DAC, but I do remember that my Technics MASH player sounded a lot better than the expensive Yamaha it replaced (c. 1989).

    The whole deal was less distortion and actually seemded to live up to the hype. If I'm not mistaken, Bitstream (SACD) is a one bit technology.
    Yes, 1-bit... MASH... this translates to using Delta-Sigma type DACs, of which almost every DAC on the market (due to significantly lower cost than a traditional R2R ladder network) is nowadays. "Noise shaping" is a fundamental function of Delta-Sigma technique. Converting analog to the digital realm always consists of two things - the signal and quantization noise. With 1-bit systems, the "noise" basically becomes the signal. Rather than having a "pretty good" signal with some quantization noise that gets lost, the idea with 1-bit Delta-Sigma systems is to sample the data really fast, and all the quantization noise gets recovered to be used as the "signal" or data. The thought is that there is then only 1-bit of noise (the original signal) with more information in the noise (which becomes the signal). The down side is that the dynamic range decreases with frequency. At bass frequencies, the dynamic range is good. At high frequencies, not so much.

    The "8x Oversampling" or "16x Oversampling" splayed across the front of CD players in the 90's was basically an indirect advertisement that it used a Delta-Signma DAC. Hype indeed, since just about every single mass-produced player used it (and they still do)...

    The difference between CD player and SACD is PCM vs. DSD. In CD players, the PCM gets converted to 1-bit (resampled at VERY high frequency, and then "signal" gets demodulated and discarded in exchange for the "noise" that becomes the actual signal). As you add bits in true PCM decoding scheme, it gets very expensive very fast to do it; and doing it with exactness and precision is exponentially more. The AD1865 DAC is one of the only R2R's that I know of left on the market, and that's only for the first 14 bits. DSD is basically intended to be Delta-Sigma from the beginning to the end, recording the signal very fast (64x CD sampling of 44.1kHz, or 2.8224 MHz) modulated 1-bit signal.

    Less commonly known is that nearly all SACDs are actually converted from the DSD original to PCM so they can be mixed and processed in the studios. Alternatively, they can be recorded in analog, mixed in analog, and convert the output directly to DSD which then gets put directly on the disc... this is VERY rare. Studio software and supporting DSPs are all designed for PCM data. A newer studio format called DSD-wide (which is basically 8-bit PCM with noise) that allows studios to claim they have "DSD processing;" this then gets processed down to "true" 1-bit DSD for burning to the discs.

    Essentially, you can think of 1-bit/Delta-Sigma/DSD as pulse-width modulated (PWM) signal at a very high sampling rate.

    I'm sure I made a mistake or two in there, but that's the gist.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: MASH cd player

    Quote Originally Posted by Sydney View Post
    Great stab from the past.
    Philips/Magnavox had labs in Ft Wayne. I got to use a prototype 12" Laservision machine.
    At that time they were also developing a smaller audio disc ( with the intent of replacing the cassette player in automobiles ).
    It became the CD.
    I almost owned a laser disk player, but by the time I could afford one, DVD players had just hit the market.

    I've read that LD actually looked better, due to lack of compression. I guess the downside was, having to change out disk.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: MASH cd player

    Quote Originally Posted by generic View Post
    ... I guess the downside was, having to change out disk.
    That, and, you know, the ginormous size

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