Digital vs Vinyl?

[Mayhem13]

Sadly i abandonded vinyl over 20yrs ago and now after listening to 180gram pressings at a vinyl expo, i think i made a BIG mistake. Anyone starting/returning or still listening/collecting vinyl. Any help for someone returning to it with entry level/vintage turntable recommendations? I haven't felt this compulsive since high school!

[djg]

Me. I am amazed at how badly I cared for my old vinyl from the seventies. As far as equipment, I went full retard with a Dynakit tube amp, VTA tube preamp, Technics SL-1300 TT and Curt's Singularities full range speakers. At least CDs sound good through the system, and the rare undamaged LP. I have not purchased any new vinyl yet.

[johngalt47]

Although I have several LPs, I haven't listened to them in some time. I did purchase a new cartridge for my Well Tempered Record Player and one of these days I will get that set up again.

Take a look at Acoustic Sounds for vinyl.

[evilskillit]

I'm no expert but I always gussed vinyl either sounds better because

a: You can't dynamically compress them nearly as much, its a physical limitation of the medium, the needle will not stay in the groove past a certain point.

b: people who are familiar with the sound of vinyl (rolled off highs and lack of very deep bass as well as possibly the hiss and pop) have a nostalgia based preference for it.

That having been said if vinyl does sound better for either of those reasons I'd rather have rips of vinyl to lossless digital files because it'd be a lot more convenient and there is a lot less work in the care and upkeep of files over large acetate pressings of vinyl plastic discs.

[djg]

+1. The only good thing about LPs is the cover art. Giant PITA to care for.

[Mayhem13]

I'm no expert but I always gussed vinyl either sounds better because

a: You can't dynamically compress them nearly as much, its a physical limitation of the medium, the needle will not stay in the groove past a certain point.

Exactly what i heard......1st issue pressings long before today's engineers STOMP all over the remaster. You can't get this kinda playback back with newer digital media. Japanese pressing of Dark Side of the Moon was unreal when compared to even the deluxe re-released DSOM Cd box.

I think the playback gear has something to do with it too as there's a kinda 'warmth'? missing from the CD version. Might be the missing 'sparkle' of 16-20khz or might be the way the FR is presented to the speakers for a more favorable power response. All speculation at this point except for the samples of vinyl i heard where simply amazing.

[jeff_free69]

Never dumped my vinyl - Growing up we had a Dual and then a Garrard zero-100, then my own technics p-mount. So nothing earth shaking but decent enough so that most of my LPs are in very good condition.

Last year I bought a Pro-ject turntable and cambridge preamp. It was fun to go through the past. I've also bought some recent new releases and old resissues.

But I'm still not sold that vinyl is automatically better. A different vibe for sure. Vinyl requires limited volume and tricks to fit the medium. Low bass on most classic rock albums just doesn't exist compared to what we are used to on Cds now. And I sure didn't miss the inevitible cracks and pops (even when de-dusting on every play) .

I think its more about the source that goes on.
One BIG disappointment is a reissue of Hendrix / Experienced on heavy vinyl. it sounds harsh and tinny compared to my CDs and an original 60's copy of the LP (unfortunately scratched pretty bad). So don't assume that can't be butchered too!

But ironically digital, which should be exploiting its low noise and extended dynamic range, goes out of its way to kill it. So anything "remastered" in the last 10 years is usually butchered. Lately I've been hitting the discount bins at J and R here in NYC. They've got tons of old CDs for $2/4/6. Even if its an album with 2-3 good songs it can be enjoyable.

[DjDisturbed]

Rega's new RP3 & RP1 are very nice record players for the money.
There are a couple others in that same price range that are very well built (like Music Hall) but I have never listened to them.
IMO the Rega entry level stuff is the best you can buy for the money.
Only thing with record players is isolating them from any vibrations. But they have that nostalgic static sound that just can't be duplicated.
To my ears they sound better than any digital format.

[Johnnycat]

You could always make your own turntable... this is DIY after all

[Sydney]

I used an AR for a long time, unfortunately now they sell for "nostalgic" prices.
There are vendors of belts and turntable parts for older tables.
I still have over 1300 albums ( I have friends with multiple rooms full ).

IHMO: The 16-bit/ 44.1khz CD standard ( Red Book ) was insufficient from the inception.
Record an instrument at higher density/rate and compare the difference.

[djg]

Yeah, I had an old AR without cueing, perhaps one reason my old LPs are so bad.

[greywarden]

on eBay Timaudio sells DIY turntable parts albeit for a price. Then there's the $300 Pro-ject Essence(??) NeedleDoctor has them and I talked to the owner back and forth for a while and he actually sent me an email when he had finished loading them off the truck, haha becuase I was interested in buying one.

[Face]

b: people who are familiar with the sound of vinyl (rolled off highs and lack of very deep bass as well as possibly the hiss and pop) have a nostalgia based preference for it.

Other than the first couple of grooves, hiss and pop is easy to avoid if you keep your records clean and static free.

Here's my DIY table. It started out as a Rega P2, I then laminated 3" of baltic birch to the bottom, upgraded the motor, belt, cart, and applied veneer to it. Between the sand box it sits in and the added mass, it's no longer audibly susceptible to vibrations.

[iLovPieNCake]

IHMO: The 16-bit/ 44.1khz CD standard ( Red Book ) was insufficient from the inception.
Record an instrument at higher density/rate and compare the difference.

Only by a little bit...

Face, do you have any thread about your DIY turntable ?

[Sydney]

See what I posted above.

I did .
I definitely prefer a 24/96 coding - even if Nyquist says it's overkill.

[greywarden]

I love 24/96+ recordings. And I have documented hearing to 22k at least.

[williamrschneider]

I love 24/96+ recordings. And I have documented hearing to 22k at least.

You lucky dog!

Experiencing some coyotes in the neighborhood lately, I looked up info on them. Those rascals can hear to 80kHz. Amazing!

I've got a turntable from the '80s with a month-old Ortofon cartridge on it. Also, we had a listening session where someone brought their Rega TT with a wood-bodied Grado and their own pre-amp, and we A-B tested the difference in sound between vinyl and my OPPO CD player. It really depends on what is being compared. One pair was indistuinguishable from each other, while other vinyl/CD comparisons were night and day different.

Bad mastering can hurt either media, but it seems more prevalent on modern digital recordings.

[djg]

Nice work Face.

[Face]

Nice work Face.

Thanks!

It's not perfect, but certainly much cheaper than something comparable.

[Paul Ebert]

I did .
I definitely prefer a 24/96 coding - even if Nyquist says it's overkill.

The problem with the 44.1k sampling rate is that it requires a brick wall filter at 22k or you get very non-harmonic distortion below 22k. So, all you need to do is have a phase accurate, infinite slope low pass at 22k and 44.1k works fine.

I think a very good case can be made, on an engineering basis, for the 96k sampling rate.