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  1. #1
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    Apr 2011
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    Londonderry, NH
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    Default Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    I have heard a few of you talk about the filler primer by rustoleum, so I decided to pick some up and try it.

    After 4 coats 15 minutes apart, then some 220+300 grit, I am more than shocked at how well it covers the seam of mdf b-u-t-t joints. Before I sanded it I said, yup another joke, can still see the seams as if there was nothing on them. Then I sanded it, wow, it covered and filled as much as a perfect bondo job-without the mess and time. This stuff is really high build, and may not be revolutionary to many of you with good paint experience, but I am pleased as can be for $4.

    My question is, do any of you have long term knowledge of this stuff? Does is hold up well, and hold paint well? Being that it goes on thick, I wonder about the durability. Any input would be much appreciated before I go spray 5 cabinets with this stuff!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Malvern, Ohio
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    3,423

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Quote Originally Posted by ROTECH View Post
    I have heard a few of you talk about the filler primer by rustoleum, so I decided to pick some up and try it.

    After 4 coats 15 minutes apart, then some 220+300 grit, I am more than shocked at how well it covers the seam of mdf b-u-t-t joints. Before I sanded it I said, yup another joke, can still see the seams as if there was nothing on them. Then I sanded it, wow, it covered and filled as much as a perfect bondo job-without the mess and time. This stuff is really high build, and may not be revolutionary to many of you with good paint experience, but I am pleased as can be for $4.

    My question is, do any of you have long term knowledge of this stuff? Does is hold up well, and hold paint well? Being that it goes on thick, I wonder about the durability. Any input would be much appreciated before I go spray 5 cabinets with this stuff!
    I'm not really sure if I have used it. Probably not because I have never had good results getting any build up with a rattle can. Sounds like it filled nicely for you. I have had problems with the rattle can paint biting into the rattle can primers a few times and wrinkling it. If you use the proper top coat you shouldn't have any issues. Just let it dry good before you paint. Sometimes the primer will shrink more over a period of a week. You'd be amazed if you wait a week and spray a couple more coats on and sand again how much the primer shrunk underneath. This is only really critical if your going for a gloss finish.
    There is a 99% chance though that those seams will pop back out. More then likely when you introduce moisture from your paint. If not then probably within a year due to season changes. Some don't have problems with this I believe due to the climate. In the Midwest the only way I have been able to stop them is using the trench method. Lots of work but worth if you don't want to see the seams.

    Dave

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
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    3,356

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    David made a good point. Auto "high build" primers usually have very strict re-coating schedules. ( I've used DuPont, Sherwin-Williams and PPG 339 [my FAV!]). I usually "decant" rattle cans contents and use in a normal spray gun so I can control the real air pressure at the nozzle, and the spray pattern. Put your cabs on painter's points and let them dry for a week or two. I haven't always had consistant results from Rustoleum rattle cans (their little cans of liquid paints, I've had very good results from, but maybe I didn't hold my mouth right). I can't paint with House of Kolor paints for anything.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Londonderry, NH
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    1,625

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Dave and Whitney,

    Thanks a bunch for the heads up. I did full primer jobs on test cabinets with this stuff, will do a few trial runs for recoat times, and final paint times before I decide to move forward. One day I was bored so I mocked up 5 square boxes out of 3/4 MDF and use them for setting router depth, and for trial on new finishing techniques. I advise anybody without great paint experience to make a few dummy cabinets for this reason.

    All these trials and possible errors is what leads me back to doing a fiberglass skim coat on my cabinets, even though it takes me forever.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
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    3,356

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Ro' I can Bondo or use MDF powder (old garage sale blender on "frappe") with Titebond III pretty darn well, as glas' resin has gone insane priced down here, but you have the uncommon "common sense" to TEST. Good old Durham's Rock Hard Putty works if you'll put it on in thin coats too, and hand-sand it. I got some "high build" acrylic latex primer on sale for $4 for nearly a gallon at Home Despot on their "Oops" shelf" (had been $68 a gallon!) and that's what I primed my PC speakers with. I used a throw-away sponge mini roller (oof!) and two thin coats on MDF were plenty. It was like rolling on slurry cement, but it worked well.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Londonderry, NH
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    1,625

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Thanks again Whitney,
    The step after woodworking, but before paint is my absolute least favorite. Finishing corners, rounds, ply-ends and the like for me have been hit or miss. I figure if I spend the next 6 months experimenting to find something "perfect" the rest of my life will be much simpler !
    I think I do need to give more thought to simple roll on, or paint on methods like you mentioned. I actually tried the woodglue-water for the first time, it was actually quite pleasent but it was hard to tell how much you are sanding away.
    Has anybody ever tried to tint the woodglue-water mixture to make it easier to see?? not a dark tint, but just enough, ya know...???

  7. #7

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    I think it's important to seal all exposed surefaces of MDF as to not let in atmospheric moisture to avoid swelling. I pre-treat pre cut MDF with multiple coats of sanding sealer. Cheap and dries fast. Use the high fill primers afterwards for finish work. Some like the glue/water mixture approach but that introduced moisture takes a while to fully leave the board and usually finally leaves after about 2 months of being finished in the house during the winter with a dry forced air hearing system.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Has anyone ever experimented with plastic resin glue and MDF? It dries glass hard as opposed to white/yellow glue that remains flexible and lets joint gaps creep open over time.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Malvern, Ohio
    Posts
    3,423

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    I agree sealing the end with sanding sealer is a good idea. When I did my Dragster speakers I didn't have any alcohol to clean out my spray gun. I like using Bin 123 alcohol based primer when spraying. All my pieces were pretty small so I decided to brush it on my hand. I used a sponge brush and dabbed all the ends. Dabbing with the brush allowed for a heavy coat and it soaked in quick enough not to run. I was amazed on how well it filled. The sponge is ok on flat areas as long as they're not to large. I prefer the oil base if brushing larger pieces. Any way I let the parts sit for 2 hours and came back and hit them again with the sponge brush. That was enough build up of primer to come back 24 hours later, sand and paint a high gloss finish.

    I did paint with two back to back coats, sanded with 400 24 hours later, then shot another coat. Wet sanded with 2000, hand buffed and waxed.

    Here's a pic of the finish. I know your suppose to wait 30 days to wax but I did it anyway. No issues yet. The paint is oil based rustoleum. I was amazed at how much gloss I got from an oil based paint. Pretty close to automotive. I'm assuming the big difference is uv rays from the sun. But I don't plan on having these outside.



    Dave

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
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    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    I tend to follow Mayhem's line of thinking. I got gallons and gallons of Red Devil Brand satin oil based urethane dirt cheap at Wally-World close-out, so I use it as a sealer with an air brush. (Go ahead and laugh. My Paasche H with a #5 head and needle does very well and doesn't waste as much finish from over-spray.) I can tint the urethane with oil based tints, but I just use it as a moisture seal, then use a primer on top. The idea of glue and water (not good for MDF) as a sealer has never appealed to me. A thin rolled (sprayed???) coat of TiteBond III (which is sandable) is an option I might experiment with. I have some scraps of real genuine waterproof MDF (it's blue-green and HEAVY) a lumber yard gave me. They said to use 3M Red or Blue Body filler on joints on it. It would make marvelous cabinets, except it's over triple the cost of plain MDF.
    If you have an O'Reilly's that handles auto paint near you, you can often pick-up "Ooops" auto colors dirt cheap, and cut them 50% and make sanding sealer from them. I shot a friend's truck recently with some "oops" paint from O'Reilly's. Saved $400 on the paint. Bought the reducer wholesale, rather by the $38 gallon. Same with PPG Delthane Clear Coat.
    Last edited by Whitneyville1; 11-21-2011 at 12:23 PM. Reason: auto paint info

  11. #11

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    A great sealer (and not very expensive) is use your favorite auto body filler($20 a gallon on up) and add epoxy resin ($30 a gal). 1/3 resin, 2/3 body filler and it works like a charm. Once it is sanded, it is a great base for primer.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    I agree with you. I used it on Eleanor... which I called the MOABs when you saw them at DIY NE. I've never had a primer work so well. It felt like cheating as I could skip right over that "sealer" step that others toil with. You saw that the results were pretty good.

    Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ROTECH View Post
    I have heard a few of you talk about the filler primer by rustoleum, so I decided to pick some up and try it.

    After 4 coats 15 minutes apart, then some 220+300 grit, I am more than shocked at how well it covers the seam of mdf b-u-t-t joints. Before I sanded it I said, yup another joke, can still see the seams as if there was nothing on them. Then I sanded it, wow, it covered and filled as much as a perfect bondo job-without the mess and time. This stuff is really high build, and may not be revolutionary to many of you with good paint experience, but I am pleased as can be for $4.

    My question is, do any of you have long term knowledge of this stuff? Does is hold up well, and hold paint well? Being that it goes on thick, I wonder about the durability. Any input would be much appreciated before I go spray 5 cabinets with this stuff!
    The first one through the wall always gets the bloodiest...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Londonderry, NH
    Posts
    1,625

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Quote Originally Posted by billschu View Post
    I agree with you. I used it on Eleanor... which I called the MOABs when you saw them at DIY NE. I've never had a primer work so well. It felt like cheating as I could skip right over that "sealer" step that others toil with. You saw that the results were pretty good.

    Bill
    GOOD GOOD GOOD! yeah the Moabs are as nice as any paintjob I would want to do myself, and if they held up being transported a few times at what I would estimate just shy of 200# cabinets....then the primer must be worth the $4. You said it well.....I felt like I was cheating. When sanded- it had no visible and tactile difference than a perfectly bondo'd skimcoat. The heck with it....I am going to begin spraying my buyout 5.1 setup this week with the stuff...then paint.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Londonderry, NH
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    1,625

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitneyville1 View Post
    I tend to follow Mayhem's line of thinking. I got gallons and gallons of Red Devil Brand satin oil based urethane dirt cheap at Wally-World close-out, so I use it as a sealer with an air brush. (Go ahead and laugh. My Paasche H with a #5 head and needle does very well and doesn't waste as much finish from over-spray.) I can tint the urethane with oil based tints, but I just use it as a moisture seal, then use a primer on top. The idea of glue and water (not good for MDF) as a sealer has never appealed to me. A thin rolled (sprayed???) coat of TiteBond III (which is sandable) is an option I might experiment with. I have some scraps of real genuine waterproof MDF (it's blue-green and HEAVY) a lumber yard gave me. They said to use 3M Red or Blue Body filler on joints on it. It would make marvelous cabinets, except it's over triple the cost of plain MDF.
    If you have an O'Reilly's that handles auto paint near you, you can often pick-up "Ooops" auto colors dirt cheap, and cut them 50% and make sanding sealer from them. I shot a friend's truck recently with some "oops" paint from O'Reilly's. Saved $400 on the paint. Bought the reducer wholesale, rather by the $38 gallon. Same with PPG Delthane Clear Coat.

    I only quoted your post because it mentioned water and wood glue interacting with MDF....
    I did quite a few test peices with the water/glue the other night. I did different batches from 20/80% 50/50% then 80/20% of water/glue. as I was applying I noticed the typical felt-cloth like sawblade marks on the endcuts raise ever so slightly.... but no swelling or expanding whatsoever. These endcut grains all ended up being sanded- and still leaving plenty of glue-edge surface.
    I applied all 3 mixes to chamfers, 1/2 RO, straight cuts, hand sanded edges....none of them swelled in the least. It makes me curious what factors went wrong with all the reports of the wood swelling- maybe way to much water and way too much applied? I know MDF and water=bad obviously, Just reporting that I had no problems....OH and it was Elmers WoodGlue MAX. which I use as a cheap alternative to Gorilla Glue for laminating large panels together, it holds just fine.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
    Posts
    3,356

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    People use it over de-rusted areas on cars, so if you let it cure out, it must be decent. It's like anything, if you use it right, it will work right. Titebond III dries medium brown and unlike any other PVA glue, it sands out well without clogging your sandpaper. It has become my absolute favorite woodworking glue since it came out. Now urethane is better for gap filling, and is stronger, but I prefer Titebond III.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Note that I did three full iterations of priming and wet sanding. Every time I started wet sanding I would notice another few spots I missed. It was still a simple process. It also dries pretty fast. I DID use some putty body filler for any bigger gaps but there are always so many tiny ones and that is where this primer became highly valued in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROTECH View Post
    GOOD GOOD GOOD! yeah the Moabs are as nice as any paintjob I would want to do myself, and if they held up being transported a few times at what I would estimate just shy of 200# cabinets....then the primer must be worth the $4. You said it well.....I felt like I was cheating. When sanded- it had no visible and tactile difference than a perfectly bondo'd skimcoat. The heck with it....I am going to begin spraying my buyout 5.1 setup this week with the stuff...then paint.
    The first one through the wall always gets the bloodiest...

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Malvern, Ohio
    Posts
    3,423

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Not sure if you guys have seen this thread but lots of info in it. I did tests on about 20 sample pieces about 2 years ago. I've been meaning to take new pics of them now and update the thread.
    Best methods for finishing MDF

    Dave

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
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    3,356

    Default Re: Rustoleum "Filler Primer"

    Dave, I wasn't around then. We need more "stickies" on some things like this. Maybe UTube links. I use a piece of salvaged 1/4" thick x1" aluminum stock as a "shooting stick" with my circular saw (or saber saw or router) since I don't have a panel saw. I learned some of these things from my great-grandfather who was an old-time carpenter. ("Never measure anything twice, use a story stick.") I don't think he ever marked a board with a pencil in his life. A razor sharp sheep-foot bladed knife with colored chalk or a marking jig was all he used.

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