Peerless 4" buyouts

[isaeagle4031]

Just wondering if anyone has used these?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...umber=264-1068

I was thinking about using these in my OS enclosures with the Vifa trunc tweet. WinISD says that with a 4.9L and a 1.5" port 6"L I will see an f3 of 53 hz. Does this seem acurate? Is this even a decent combo? I will be making a new front plate for these as well

[ROTECH]

I have heard many a negative about that driver. Will only cross well below about 2300, which is not very useful for a 4"

[Mayhem13]

I have heard many a negative about that driver. Will only cross well below about 2300, which is not very useful for a 4"

That would be more the 'failure' of the designer than the driver itself. Tympany measurements (always known to be trustworthy and accurate) shown this driver having a smooth response well into the 4khz range. Of course it would need a notch filter high up, but that's the beauty of metal cones with all of the excellent detail in the usable passband.

Other than fairly low efficiency, i see no reason not to use it. Would make an excellent driver for a line array given the low Fs for a 4".

[johnnyrichards]

That would be more the 'failure' of the designer than the driver itself. Tympany measurements (always known to be trustworthy and accurate) shown this driver having a smooth response well into the 4khz range. Of course it would need a notch filter high up, but that's the beauty of metal cones with all of the excellent detail in the usable passband.

Other than fairly low efficiency, i see no reason not to use it. Would make an excellent driver for a line array given the low Fs for a 4".

The distortion is kind of high on this driver compounded with a peak from the breakup. The fundamental may be smooth to that point, but the distortion is rising by 2300 already, with the breakup propagating down low as odd order distortion. It is very audible when crossed to a good tweeter, maybe not so much if crossed to a lesser unit, but it should still be crossed pretty low. Couple this with a large cabinet requirement for a 4" woofer, and what the driver ends up being good for is as a low sensitivity midrange with limited bandwidth and average distortion plus a difficult to mount truncated frame.

This driver is a good example of cost/brand/model not having any correlation with quality.

As always, YMMV.

[fastbike1]

I applaud your "zen" for not biting on the "failure of the designer" remark.

I remember your trials trying to make them work.

The distortion is kind of high on this driver compounded with a peak from the breakup. The fundamental may be smooth to that point, but the distortion is rising by 2300 already, with the breakup propagating down low as odd order distortion. It is very audible when crossed to a good tweeter, maybe not so much if crossed to a lesser unit, but it should still be crossed pretty low. Couple this with a large cabinet requirement for a 4" woofer, and what the driver ends up being good for is as a low sensitivity midrange with limited bandwidth and average distortion plus a difficult to mount truncated frame.

This driver is a good example of cost/brand/model not having any correlation with quality.

As always, YMMV.

[timw]

The Peerless HDS family of woofers of all types (aluminum, Nomex, or polypropylene) and sizes have a common characterisitic of a significant 3rd order harmonic distortion peak between 1 to 2 kHz.

[johnnyrichards]

The Peerless HDS family of woofers of all types (aluminum, Nomex, or polypropylene) and sizes have a common characterisitic of a significant 3rd order harmonic distortion peak between 1 to 2 kHz.

Yes they do, but this one has the distortion peak from the breakup to deal with as well

I really liked how this woofer looks and the outward build quality is superb, so I was disappointed in it quite a bit.

[Mayhem13]

Yes they do, but this one has the distortion peak from the breakup to deal with as well

I really liked how this woofer looks and the outward build quality is superb, so I was disappointed in it quite a bit.

Are you talking about the 9khz breakup from the mfgrs graph?....why is that a problem?

[Wolf]

It's not a buyout, it's on sale.

Later,
Wolf

[timw]

Are you talking about the 9khz breakup from the mfgrs graph?....why is that a problem?

The 9kHz aluminum cone breakup is going to result in harmonic distortion peaks at 3kHz (3rd harmonic), 2.25Khz (4th harmonic), and 1.8kHz (5th harmonic). Add these to the normal Peerless HDS series 3rd harmonic distortion peak between 1 and 2 Khz, & the 5th harmonic distortion peak at 1 kHz, and you have an issue.


Zaph's ZA14W08 midwoofer has similar harmonic distortion peaks due to its aluminum cone breakup. His midwoofer has a better motor so its harmonic distortion is lower in general.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA14W08/

[isaeagle4031]

Hmm, doesn't look like this driver is my cup of tea then. Too many negs to accomplish what I want from it. I thought it was a buyout, oops.

OK, then lets try a different driver. How about the Vifa trunc tweet and the Dayton DA115 Alum?

[Mayhem13]

The 9kHz aluminum cone breakup is going to result in harmonic distortion peaks at 3kHz (3rd harmonic), 2.25Khz (4th harmonic), and 1.8kHz (5th harmonic). Add these to the normal Peerless HDS series 3rd harmonic distortion peak between 1 and 2 Khz, & the 5th harmonic distortion peak at 1 kHz, and you have an issue.


Zaph's ZA14W08 midwoofer has similar harmonic distortion peaks due to its aluminum cone breakup. His midwoofer has a better motor so its harmonic distortion is lower in general.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA14W08/

As does almost every metal cone driver available. There's nothing new here. Again, if the simplicity of paper or plastic you prefer, then fine. Just don't blame the driver. It's not for the beginner i agree, but it's certainly not a piece of junk either.

[johnnyrichards]

Or maybe it is just not that good of a driver.



The breakup propagates low, and is quite high in magnitude compared to drivers with better motors and/or cone control. This shouldn't be crossed over higher than the low 2K range, and even then the only time I was able to get something resembling even a Jamo buyout level of listenability out of it was with a very steep slope (6th order or better). This creates other problems. The breakup distortion is considerably higher because it is riding on the crest of 3rd order distortion inherent to the HDS motors, so it has to be buried even deeper than a standard metal cone. The only reason to use a 4" driver in the first place is to leverage the small diameter into a high crossover point, and this driver fails on that.

Unnecessary snipes at the designer aside, sometimes it is ok to blame the driver even if it is a Peerless HDS.

FWIW, this driver is not included in the 2012 catalog with the other aluminum HDS drivers and while this is not conclusive evidence that the $24 pricetag is a clearance sale, it is awfully suggestive. It is definitely not a buyout, however.

[timw]

Thanks John for the actual measured harmonic distortion graph for the 4" aluminum HDS woofer. The graph communicates loud and clear the harmonic distortion issues with this driver.

[Wolf]

FWIW, this driver is not included in the 2012 catalog with the other aluminum HDS drivers and while this is not conclusive evidence that the $24 pricetag is a clearance sale, it is awfully suggestive. It is definitely not a buyout, however.

Yeah- but the 264-1068 is pictured and not in the chart either, even though a dfferent 5.25" HDS aluminum is present in the chart; unless the part numbers are all messed up.

I do agree that HD plot is not exemplary of the typical HDS modus.

Later,
Wolf

[Taterworks]

What is the drive level for the harmonic distortion plot? Also, why is its y-axis scale in % of distortion, rather than dB? I much prefer the way Soundeasy displays this stuff.

[isaeagle4031]

Well as I said, this driver looks to me to be more than I want to work with. So I will be done with this thread and start another with the driver I decided to use.

[johnnyrichards]

What is the drive level for the harmonic distortion plot? Also, why is its y-axis scale in % of distortion, rather than dB? I much prefer the way Soundeasy displays this stuff.

About 90 db at 1k, and the % scale just to drive you crazy, Rory But don't worry, I measured a Vifa NE19 under the same conditions and got remarkably similar results to the Soundeasy results Mr. Krutke got.

Sometimes, pricing and brandname bamboozles people and this driver is a fine example of this.

But whatever, having actually spent a few months with it I know what it is like, will stand by my assessment and haters are gonna hate. I know what a lot of people here think about me, and it is getting to the point the feeling may well be mutual.

[czag]

Sometimes, pricing and brandname bamboozles people and this driver is a fine example of this.

You've posted similar sentiments quite often as though the majority of members here disagree. I think most here would agree that pretty much every speaker manufacturer has a few dogs in the line up, I've never really seen many here argue that point. I'm sure there have been a few, but only a very few. I don't recall anyone posting that not one of the mid to high end manufacturers ever put out drivers that are not worth the money.


Chris

[johnnyrichards]

You've posted similar sentiments quite often as though the majority of members here disagree. I think most here would agree that pretty much every speaker manufacturer has a few dogs in the line up, I've never really seen many here argue that point. I'm sure there have been a few, but only a very few. I don't recall anyone posting that not one of the mid to high end manufacturers ever put out drivers that are not worth the money.


Chris

You mean that exact sentiment not so subtly expressed in this very thread? Thats what gets me, when a driver from a well respected series is actually a dog I still receive flak for calling it as such, plus endure thinly disguised insults from people who seem unwilling to accept it. I am well aware many people are objective to not let their pre-conceived notions about a driver cloud their judgement, and I really only bring it up when the topic is raised. As long as people imply I am incompetent, I will defend myself. I mean, I get - for some people the fact I tinker with cheap drivers means my judgement is suspect, but there are people on this board who have thousands of posts and have built almost nothing.

To sum up, I said what I said because it was the right place to say it. I'll say it again whenever someone makes the claim that you can't blame a driver.