Cheap speaker recomendations

[jgleadall]

Hi, i am a finishing carpenter and recently grew tired of the radio i had been using at work. I purchased a older Sony stereo receiver and threw a 2 old JL Audio TR650CX coaxial drivers in some old 3/4in plywood boxes(about 0.6 cubic ft) that i had in the basement. When these drivers were installed in my car many moons ago i recall them sounding really good and detailed.

Without calculating anything, i assumed these drivers would just sound as good as they did in my car, in some randomly chosen box. I guess i wasn't really surprised, more or less just hoping it would all work itself out. Boy was i wrong, they are boomy and lacking huge amounts of mid range, they almost echo a bit. I cant quite put my finger on it.

My guess is wrong driver, wrong design. Im assuming Coaxial speakers were ever realy intended to be used this way.

My needs are more or less some rugged speakers that can take some abuse, not be very large and have decent quality and output. Im not looking for huge ammounts of bass, more clarity. I have lots of power to work with so that isnt really going to be a problem and the amp is stable from 4-16 ohm so that gives me lots of possible configurations.

I have some Edirol MA-10A micro monitors and if i could build something that sounded in the range of them or my sirius boom box i would be more than happy. Suggestions anyone? I dont want to spend more than $100 on the drivers and parts for the pair.

[generic]

If I had a $100 budget for speakers, I think this is the only thing I would spend my money on. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=250-707

Coaxial speakers can work for home use, but those were probably made for car gain and only have a single cap on the tweeter. Sticking them in a box isn't going to do a whole lot.

[jgleadall]

Yes, they do indeed have a single cap on them. So to make them work i would really have to build a crossover for them?

I was thinking maybe building a couple of single full range driver speakers to keep it simple, are there any that stand out from the crowd that anybody has experience with? i know im asking for a lot on this budget, im sure its possible. Another reason for building my own is being able to control the enclosure, if it gets beat up real bad, i can easily make a new one, id be sad if i wrecked a nice looking box like that pioneer.

[generic]

Yes, they do indeed have a single cap on them. So to make them work i would really have to build a crossover for them?

Assuming the drivers are even good, yes, they would need a better crossover to sound good. Here is an example of a good Coaxial kit. http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...rts-only-each/

If you have $100 for speakers, I'd just get the pioneers. I don't know how rugged they are, but I don't know to get better speakers for $100.

[bkeane1259]

Ya know...those are not exactly bad speakers, but you're moving them from a very colored environment (car cabin) to an environment that they were not engineered for in the first place. You won't hear them like they used to sound in your car mainly because that cabin gain, coloration and off-axis listening angle is gone now.

The other important missing part of the puzzle is a decent crossover. Many of these co-ax designs utilize a 1st order hi-pass on the tweeter and nothing on the woofer. Just running that woofer full range, on axis, should sound horrible to your ears. I'm not surprised. That doesn't mean you couldn't experiment a bit with them.

You'd have to at least build a 2-way crossover and probably run them in a smaller, sealed enclosure, to get them sounding better. You won’t get much low end out of them because they are shallow-mount, so xmax will be very limited. A sub would have to supplement low end. Without T/S parms, it’s going to be very difficult to model the proper crossover.

I guess it depends on how much you really want to salvage these for home use.

[ROTECH]

Where you are a carpenter, I am sure you can build something for just the cost of electronics....you probably have all the wood and glue/parts you need for a pair of overnight sensations. Check out the dayton premade b652 things.....problem with smaller speakers like the ONS, if you are working in a large area, the speakers will most likely get lost in there.
aside from that, check out a pawn shop for a pair of Boston Acoustics m-50's if you just want to fill a gap for work music, you should be able to get these under $50 for the pair. you can also look at the M80, about 100$ pair-used and these will fill your space.

If you arent going to me moving these speakers all over the world, check with JOHNNYRICHARDS, he has a bunch of budget-big sounds options you may like.

[bkeane1259]

If I had a $100 budget for speakers, I think this is the only thing I would spend my money on. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=250-707

HUGE +1 on those Pioneers. They are getting rave reviews from everyone. Pluse you get free shipping and use the coupon code to save $5. So basically $95 all-in and you don't have to create an ounce of saw dust.

[GranteedEV]

Without calculating anything, i assumed these drivers would just sound as good as they did in my car, in some randomly chosen box. I guess i wasn't really surprised, more or less just hoping it would all work itself out. Boy was i wrong, they are boomy and lacking huge amounts of mid range, they almost echo a bit. I cant quite put my finger on it.

The two major contributors to what you are hearing, would be

1) The box. Car Audio drivers are normally high QTS to work installed in a door. In a box, qts will be very, VERY high. You will need to find a way to damp qts. Measuring the T/S parameters would be a good place to start figuring in which sort of box they might possible work out in. Otherwise your bass will probably be mistuned.

1) The box. For any given box dimensions, below a specific frequency (let's say for the dimension of your box, it might be 600hz) sound begins to radiate backwards around the box as well as forwards... so you lose forward radiating SPL below that frequency. This is called the baffle step. Without compensating for it, the midrange will sound shouty and thin.

My guess is wrong driver, wrong design. Im assuming Coaxial speakers were ever realy intended to be used this way.

I'm not a fan of coaxials where the tweeter is outside of the woofer. To me the better coaxials place the tweeter inside the woofer cone. KEF, Pioneer, B&C, Radian, BMS etc. But I'm a fan of coaxials in general.

Yes, they do indeed have a single cap on them. So to make them work i would really have to build a crossover for them?

Ideally, yes. However with what you have, you could equalize the baffle step externally and build a more fitting box. Unfortunately you will need to invest in a measurement microphone.

I was thinking maybe building a couple of single full range driver speakers to keep it simple, are there any that stand out from the crowd that anybody has experience with?

There's a few, but just about everything out there will require a filter of some sort to sound its best. If you're not willing to measure, then you really have to start looking at other people's filter designs, box dimensions, and driver selections.

[ROTECH]

Those pioneers do sound good. I have heard the TM bookshelf, they sound nice and full.

*****use of the word FULL did not come from the audiophile theasauras, it came from my mental dictionary of descriptive words******

[JimHRB]

Building a pair of Overnight Sensations or Nano Neos would seem to fit your budget and requirements.

[michiganpat]

or Johnny Richard's rompicellos if you want something a little bigger....and cheaper....(IIRC $34 for the parts for a pair)

[jgleadall]

Thanks for the input guys, i appreciate it. After listening to the speakers all day at work today, im starting to realize they arent as bad as i thought and perhaps have some real potential.Im kind of stubborn and hate to give up right away. Should i try building a crossover and try and turn them back into the speakers i remember? Are there any crossover building tutorials out there that anybody can recommend? How about a mic and tuning software? suggestions?

[bkeane1259]

It's going to take awhile if you dive in and try to learn crossover design. Buying measuring gear is not only gonna cost you some coin, but the learning curve is quite steep.

[bkeane1259]

I'd be willing to play along if you'd like to experiment with a simple 2-way crossover. We will have to compile some info first about your existing box, etc.

I believe the tweeters (0.5" textile domes) are the same as the ones that they sell separate, and they work basically above 4k. If I had that co-ax, I'd try at least a 2nd order XO at 4k for starters.


Wanna try this? If so, tell me:
1) box dimensions (inside) so we can get the exact volume.
2) is it a sealed box?
3) woofer and tweeter ohm rating. Is it on the back of the drivers? It may be 4ohm woofer, 8ohm tweeter.
4) can you easily get leads to both speakers (tweeter and woofer), so they can indeed be separated?

[jgleadall]

I found this, these are the the drivers, they dont seem to be listed on their website. http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...TR650-CXI.aspx

Tomorrow i will get the exact box dimensions and some pics, they are at work at the moment.

The box is currently sealed, but would like to port if it would sound better.

Combined rating is 4Ohm as far as i know, most car audio speakers are. Will double check. Would you like me to take a reading of the woofer and tweeter?

Leads can be separated fairly easily, the tweeters wires are soldered onto the main terminals.

[bkeane1259]

Sure...they are listed. You have to dig a bit.

http://www.jlaudio.com/tr650-cxi-car...-systems-91033

[jgleadall]

Mine are 10+ years old, im pretty sure those are the newer model, i will upload some pics today, and verify the model number.

[RDR75]

Building a pair of Overnight Sensations or Nano Neos would seem to fit your budget and requirements.

I was thinking the same thing...
...or maybe a pair of BR-1S for $109?

[Silver1omo]

or Johnny Richard's rompicellos if you want something a little bigger....and cheaper....(IIRC $34 for the parts for a pair)

+1
Johnny has a couple of budget designs that I would like to build:
http://gonecatfishin.net/Cabrini.pdf
http://gonecatfishin.net/Rompicollo.pdf

It is a shame that the international shipping is a deal breaker...

[cjmartiny]

Building a pair of Overnight Sensations or Nano Neos would seem to fit your budget and requirements.

I was gonna post the same thing. And if you wanted to go the easy way you could get the flat pack kit. Just throw some glue in there and bam.

I love mine. They are way more clear then the speakers i was using before.