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  1. #1

    Default Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    This is the trouble that Swiss manufacturer Goldmund goes through to brace their monitors and bass modules. All of their bass modules are of an isobaric design. All of the cabinets and bracing systems are made out of metal. What do you guys think? Are these the ultimate cabinets? Or a wasted effort?
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    And a few more pictures
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    Far from ultimate, IMO. Shelf/Rib braces >>>>> dowel-style braces

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    Posts
    1,090

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    My next cabinet is going to consist of 1/2" BB or MDF, with 1/2 to 5/8" of poured microsil non-shrink grout, with 3/4" dowel braces spaced minimum 8" OC side to side, top to bottom, and front to back. The microsil grout is about 60 to 80 MPa strength. It's self leveling and easy to work with. Stronger than concrete, without the gravel

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Chicago - the guts
    Posts
    4,734

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    "All that trouble" and they still rate the FR of their Epilogue systems @ +/- 10db.

    They can stick their $300k speakers (and metal braces) up their rear ends....Oooo...all metal construction ....that's gonna leave a mark.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    Hmmmm... I'm not sure what you're reading, but they rate all of their speakers at -3dB except for the full system. Which is rated at -10dB to show that it has a 10Hz output. If you think 10Hz at -10dB is bad, you've lost your mind

    Not that I care, but they actually spec phenomenal. This has nothing to do with a +/- dB rating.

    http://goldmund.com/products/epilogue_full_system

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ballwin, MO 38.597554, -90.547423
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    18,069
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    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    All that metal, expense, and FUGLY, to boot. Ultimate? Nah.

    If you're going to the trouble to build a custom metal enclosure to make it well braced, and then completely ignore baffle diffraction, simply means they really don't know all there is to creating an "ultimate" enclosure.

    Now THIS is much closer to "ultimate" and it's not even metal.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Chicago - the guts
    Posts
    4,734

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    I can squeak out a -10db brown note after too much cheap Tex-Mex and that's with minimal bracing.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    When I think of cabinet bracing and cabinet that is good I think of
    these:
    http://magico.net/Company/index.php
    and these:
    http://rockporttechnologies.com/
    and of course B&W matric bracing.

    NOT the goldmunds.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Lowell MI
    Posts
    1,081

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    Those Goldmunds look to me like they're made w/ 1/2" thick aluminum. Even w/ minimal bracing those would be sturdier than any amount of wood. I'm definitely far from any kind of professional in the speaker industry but I do know wood and I do know a bit about steel (or aluminum). They are fugly though and if I had $300k to light on fire, I don't think I'd buy those

  11. #11

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    Pete, I totally understand where you're coming from. I have also questioned Goldmund's decision not to round the baffle edges, or flush mount the drivers (for that price!). They don't even bother to flush mount the tweeter on their lower end (relatively speaking) speakers. Although to be fair, the drivers are definitely flush mounted on the Epilogue 1 speakers and in addition, the tweeter has a thick diffraction felt around it. In their Epilogue 1 Signature speakers, Goldmund also flush mounts both the tweeter and the woofer and in addition places a waveguide over the tweeter (ScanSpeak). So you really cannot fault them there.

    Now, I personally own a pair of the Goldmund Logos1 monitors (Vifa DX25TG05-04 and Peerless 830875). And I have also made an exact replica of them, complete in metal, with the same dimensions, crossover, and parts. Ignore the date in front of the speaker/picture, I had to prove to someone on another forum that I actually owned the speakers.

    As you can see, neither drivers are flush mounted, nor are the baffle edges rounded. Yet, they measure a flat +/-1.5dB (in my room, gated) and even better in the tweeter's region. It's strange, I know. But they really know what they're doing and back up their design choices with real life measurements and science.

    P.S. The Goldmund speakers use a well braced enclosure made out of 1cm thick bar stock aluminum (for their budget line). And they increase the baffle's thickness to 2cm for the reference Epilogue system. No MDF, plywood, etc. enclosure, regardless on how well it's braced, will even come close to these cabinets.

    Now Magico is a different story...
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sioux Falls
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    12,077

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    As much as I am going to regret throwing the troll some kibble - it is really, really, really easy to get flat on-axis measurements regardless of baffle geometry. It can be done with $5 woofers and tweeters. It can be done with any driver arrangement and crossover topology you desire.

    Take some off-axis measurements, and then figure out why not paying attention to diffraction is, to use your choice of phrasing, an "epic fail".

    The goldmund probably uses PCB's though.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    Johnny, funny you should mention the PCBs. Goldmund actually uses a point to point wired/soldered crossover, all covered with a 3M 6" diameter heatshrink tube! The tweeter's and the woofer's crossovers are separated. This is certainly epic fail for the price.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Schumacher « View Post
    All that metal, expense, and FUGLY, to boot. Ultimate? Nah.

    If you're going to the trouble to build a custom metal enclosure to make it well braced, and then completely ignore baffle diffraction, simply means they really don't know all there is to creating an "ultimate" enclosure.

    Now THIS is much closer to "ultimate" and it's not even metal.

    Wait, did he replace the C-Quenze with an Illuminator? Or is that just a prototype?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    +1 for the Illiuminators, no doubt.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Blue Springs, MO
    Posts
    777

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Schumacher « View Post
    All that metal, expense, and FUGLY, to boot. Ultimate? Nah.

    If you're going to the trouble to build a custom metal enclosure to make it well braced, and then completely ignore baffle diffraction, simply means they really don't know all there is to creating an "ultimate" enclosure.

    Now THIS is much closer to "ultimate" and it's not even metal.

    A bit off topic... but DoubleTap, did you cry when you had to slice through that beautiful enclosure for the cutaway pic?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
    Posts
    3,513

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    Wellll, really, if you're talking about air movement, all the braces should be of a laminar flow shape to reduce internal turbulence and coated to prevent secondary reflections, but that stuff isn't seen and it's taken 500 years to convince musical instrument makers there's anything to the "science" of acoustics too. The Suzuka violins are proof of this. Carbon fiber bodies and metal fins sound as good as 16th Century Maple Stradivarii.
    How much difference would all the extra effort make? Not that much, possibly just measurable in some cases, not at all in others. We use "brute force" to strengthen our enclosures mostly, rather than modern structural engineering, because it's alot easier and our raw materials are "cheap" relatively.
    I know one of my train club guy's who's an aircraft structural engineer would grimace at our "designs". But our speakers don't have to fly, either. Q: How thick of a steel bar does it take to keep a man in a prison cell? A: Not very thick if it has 27,000 VAC @ 30 amps running thru it.... (Old Oklahoma electric chair joke. "Old Sparky" was the highest VA chair in the US, but messy.)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    Good lord those Goldmund speakers are possibly the worst combination of aesthetic and performance design choices I have ever seen in any product ever.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    I don't understand the concept of their "full system" shown in the second photo from the right in post #2 above. In concept isn't it a TMT mounted over a sub?

    (I certainly wouldn't mind owning a pair of their amps, preamp, optical drive, and turntable though!)

  20. #20

    Default Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    The full system goes like this: Midrange, tweeter, woofer (isobaric), woofer (isobaric), tweeter, midrange, subwoofer (isobaric), subwoofer (isobaric), subwoofer (isobaric), subwoofer (isobaric). Whew!

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