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  1. #1

    Default RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    I keep hearing about these RAAL ribbon tweeters in virtually every thread on here. So I must ask, what is the big deal? Why are these tweeters considered to be the holy grail? Can someone please post distortion data? Comprehensive off-axis plots? SPL graph? Waterfall?

    What I found from the specs is that it looks like a very standard ribbon tweeter. With an extremely high price.

    Please show me some proof that this is the best thing that has happened to all of us since sliced bread.

    I'm a non-believer...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    This is gonna go nowhere fast.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Hearing is believing. Until you do, nothing else will convince you. They test very well, have very low distortion, very smooth and wide frequency response, and effortless, realistic presentation with no hint of compression. I've never heard a dome tweeter render highs like the RAAL. There's just nothing out there that can do what they do as well as they do it.

    And until you actually hear them, you will never be convinced.

  4. #4

    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    I'd love to hear them! Will it be possible at one of these DIY events? Indiana? Does anyone know of any commercial speakers that use them?

    Now let's get back to some hard evidence. These are extremely expensive tweeters. Let's see some data/proof that they do anything better than let's say the ScanSpeak AirCirc?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by ridikas View Post
    I'd love to hear them! Will it be possible at one of these DIY events? Indiana? Does anyone know of any commercial speakers that use them?

    Now let's get back to some hard evidence. These are extremely expensive tweeters. Let's see some data/proof that they do anything better than let's say the ScanSpeak AirCirc?
    I might bring a pair of speakers to InDIYana that feature a RAAL.

    Vapor uses RAAL, and so does Salk. I helped design the Vapor Breeze, and might be able to bring a set for the gang to hear.

    As for evidence, the RAAL moving mass is far less than any dome, meaning that it can start and stop faster than any dome.

    Look on RAAL's web page for response plots. You can believe them, since they look exactly like the plots we get with them. Their response is the smoothest of any tweeter I've ever measured, with very low distortion to go along with that smooth response.

    But again, none of this matters, because you don't know what it sounds like by looking at plots.

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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Schumacher ® View Post
    But again, none of this matters, because you don't know what it sounds like by looking at plots.
    Sweet Jeebus why don't people understand this? FR and harmonic distortion plots will identify and weed out (most of) the bad stuff, but they don't tell the subtle differences in how the good things sound. What we (commonly) measure just does not correlate very well with what we hear . . . at least not at the level of quality that we're talking about.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    I am also dying to hear a set of RAAL's that have been well implimented. I see no arguing the price, from the perspective that you will be hanging on to the system for a while. I see many reasons why they are disliked here is because people in DIY like to have many many designs on hand- then build more- yes that is wicked fun, I do it too. But If I was to spend a couple G's for a set of "perfectly" executed DIY's I would want to keep them for a while (forever), so the price and performance are totally justifiable to me. Heck, I am sure I spend enough at the bar to pay for 2 sets of RAALS in a year!!

    Anybody in the New England area have a system that uses RAAL? I would love to hear them???

  8. #8
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by ROTECH View Post
    I am also dying to hear a set of RAAL's that have been well implimented. I see no arguing the price, from the perspective that you will be hanging on to the system for a while. I see many reasons why they are disliked here is because people in DIY like to have many many designs on hand- then build more- yes that is wicked fun, I do it too. But If I was to spend a couple G's for a set of "perfectly" executed DIY's I would want to keep them for a while (forever), so the price and performance are totally justifiable to me. Heck, I am sure I spend enough at the bar to pay for 2 sets of RAALS in a year!!

    Anybody in the New England area have a system that uses RAAL? I would love to hear them???
    You can get a pair of Breeze, assembled, with Wavecor Nomex cone 6" woofers and RAAL 70-10D, for $1250/pr.

    Try building yourself a pair and see what you pay.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    I heard the Breeze at the Chicago DIY. In fact, my 17-yr old was sitting right next to me. At one point my son turned and looked at me and said those were the best sounding speakers he ever heard. I too thought they were....well, awesome, but I am saying that based on how they imaged and how smooth they were in the midrange and how silky they were in the high-end. It was no doubt because of the RAAL 70-10D.

    Yes, I would not listen to anyone bad-mouth these (very expensive) drivers if they had not heard them. the only thing that prevents me from using them is their price point. Wanna complain? Complain about the price, but they are fantastic drivers.


    EDIT: I just noticed the tags...LOLOLOL

  10. #10
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Schumacher ® View Post
    You can get a pair of Breeze, assembled, with Wavecor Nomex cone 6" woofers and RAAL 70-10D, for $1250/pr.

    Try building yourself a pair and see what you pay.
    Pete,

    I before you posted this, I went to the VAPOR site, and thought to myself- How the heck are they able to maintain this pricing- the RAAL's alone are near your total MSRP.
    I wanna ask how you did it, but then again, I would get jealous of your answer. Some things are better left unsaid!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by bkeane1259 View Post
    I heard the Breeze at the Chicago DIY. In fact, my 17-yr old was sitting right next to me. At one point my son turned and looked at me and said those were the best sounding speakers he ever heard. I too thought they were....well, awesome, but I am saying that based on how they imaged and how smooth they were in the midrange and how silky they were in the high-end. It was no doubt because of the RAAL 70-10D.

    Yes, I would not listen to anyone bad-mouth these (very expensive) drivers if they had not heard them. the only thing that prevents me from using them is their price point. Wanna complain? Complain about the price, but they are fantastic drivers.


    EDIT: I just noticed the tags...LOLOLOL


    Yeah, I too got a kick out of the tags. I wish they werent so directed at one individual (regardless of history) but I can surely say with 100% certainty that while sitting out at my firepit tomorrow night I will be drunk and screaming RIDICKARAAAAAAAALLLL at the top of my lungs. It just rolls off the tongue sooo nicely!!!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by ROTECH View Post
    Pete,

    I before you posted this, I went to the VAPOR site, and thought to myself- How the heck are they able to maintain this pricing- the RAAL's alone are near your total MSRP.
    I wanna ask how you did it, but then again, I would get jealous of your answer. Some things are better left unsaid!
    Get yourself a pair, and you won't want another set of speakers for critical listening.

    Every time I sit down and listen to those at Ryan's (when there's a fleeting pair on hand) I'm blown away by what is coming from those diminutive cabinets. Want speakers that disappear? Crisp dynamics that just don't seem possible from a 6" 2-way? The RAAL is without a doubt, the best tweeter I've had the pleasure of hearing, and I've gotten to hear some real gems. They just sound more real than anything else, other ribbons included. I don't care what dome it is, they sound boring by comparison.

    Thank goodness auditory memory is short, or I'd never want to listen to the Byzy's after hearing the Breeze (except for the low end ).

  13. #13
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    I admit, I looked into the Breeze a bit myself and it's not worth it for me to even remotely try to emulate it considering the price that Ryan charges. I'd just buy them from him...period.

    Even on the secondary market the tweets are at least $600/pair. Of course, we don't know what went into the XO either.....

    I'm pretty sold on Raal. It will go in my ultimate speaker some day. First I have to get a dedicated listening room....that might be awhile.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Schumacher ® View Post

    Thank goodness auditory memory is short, or I'd never want to listen to the Byzy's after hearing the Breeze (except for the low end ).

    That's the one sticking point for me with the Breeze. A well-integrated sub(s) is needed.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by bkeane1259 View Post
    That's the one sticking point for me with the Breeze. A well-integrated sub(s) is needed.
    In a smaller room, there's surprising bass from these, and for a LOT of music, they have plenty of extension, reaching 50Hz. A small sub or two would turn them into a world class 3-way in short order. A floor standing 3-way is in the works using the Breeze components up top, and a pair of 8" subs underneath each TM to round out the tower.

    Now those will be Revel destroyers.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Schumacher ® View Post
    In a smaller room, there's surprising bass from these, and for a LOT of music, they have plenty of extension, reaching 50Hz. A small sub or two would turn them into a world class 3-way in short order. A floor standing 3-way is in the works using the Breeze components up top, and a pair of 8" subs underneath each TM to round out the tower.

    Now those will be Revel destroyers.
    Ok, you've got my attention now. When do we get to see these bad boys???

  17. #17
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carrick1973 View Post
    Ok, you've got my attention now. When do we get to see these bad boys???
    We hope to have a pair to display at AK Fest.

    Here's a sketch of what we're aiming for. Internally mounted PRs . . .


  18. #18
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Schumacher ® View Post
    We hope to have a pair to display at AK Fest.

    Here's a sketch of what we're aiming for. Internally mounted PRs . . .
    These look awesome. I was telling my rich fiancé about the Breeze last week actually, trying to drop some hints about my birthday. Hehe.

    Anyway, I do have a design question. What do the internal radiators accomplish? Unless the stern of the boat is also ported, wouldn't it have no net effect? I was thinking at first it might be some sort of isobaric like effect, but I couldn't make that track in my head. Sorry if this is a noob question.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickJ View Post
    These look awesome. I was telling my rich fiancé about the Breeze last week actually, trying to drop some hints about my birthday. Hehe.

    Anyway, I do have a design question. What do the internal radiators accomplish? Unless the stern of the boat is also ported, wouldn't it have no net effect? I was thinking at first it might be some sort of isobaric like effect, but I couldn't make that track in my head. Sorry if this is a noob question.
    That curved part at the bottom of the cabinet is open, so there's a rather large hole there for the PRs to breathe from.

    The only reason they're internal like that is because the baffle would be too tall with all 4 eight inch cones, and we didn't want to mount them on the curved sides.

    Plus, it's just one feature that sets them apart from the pack.

  20. #20

    Default Re: RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, What's the Big Deal?

    Pete - Can you share the Breeze's crossover with us?

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