Despite the out-to-lunch markup these things suffer from they aren't low quality drivers they're just not suited to the application they are currently applied in. And same goes for the cabinets, it's a 50hz design being used to support music with strong 30hz content.. something that just doesn't work.
The other curiosity I see in the pic is why the Nady boxes are laid on thier side? Are these not fullrange cabs or are they just reflex loaded 15" bass bins? If they're just more bass that explains some of the mud you say this system generates, I mean what do you expect to get when there are reflex and horn loaded boxes operating the the same frequency range. And if that's the case what is covering the rest of the audio spectrum?
Despite the out-to-lunch markup these things suffer from they aren't low quality drivers they're just not suited to the application they are currently applied in. And same goes for the cabinets, it's a 50hz design being used to support music with strong 30hz content.. something that just doesn't work.
The other curiosity I see in the pic is why the Nady boxes are laid on thier side? Are these not fullrange cabs or are they just reflex loaded 15" bass bins? If they're just more bass that explains some of the mud you say this system generates, I mean what do you expect to get when there are reflex and horn loaded boxes operating the the same frequency range. And if that's the case what is covering the rest of the audio spectrum?
Yeah they're Nady dual 15 subs, which I believe retail for like $400 for the pair . The 'mains' are a pair of Yorkville dual 10's + 1" exit horn hanging from the ceiling.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Originally Posted by killersoundz
Yeah they're Nady dual 15 subs, which I believe retail for like $400 for the pair . .
Added at some point in an effort to get more bass no doubt. P.S. Just saw them on PSSL for $209ea!! Holy pile-o-doggydo batman, those things aren't worth the cardboard boxes they were shipped in.
Originally Posted by killersoundz
The 'mains' are a pair of Yorkville dual 10's + 1" exit horn hanging from the ceiling.
Well they should cover the topend nicely, just need some proper subs to go with them.
Oh and for the record. Lets face it, EV and JBL hyper inflate the prices of their raw drivers just because that is about 0.5% of their business, and it makes it seem like they're something special. But the 18's in those kick bins aren't the 180B. I've scoped them out they appear pretty wimpy in comparison. Unfortunately I know of another local venue that uses a pair of these exact same kickbins for their low end...........arghhh can't get away from them lol
Last edited by killersoundz; 03-05-2012 at 12:59 PM.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Originally Posted by killersoundz
Oh and for the record. Lets face it, EV and JBL hyper inflate the prices of their raw drivers just because that is about 0.5% of their business, and it makes it seem like they're something special.
What I have heard is that the rediculous prices are to keep them from showing up in too many DIY boxes of unknown design and quality... which could tarnish the manufacturers reputation. I can see that point.. but in EV's case at least thier own designs have stagnated somewhat while JBL continued to develep more powerful and better performing drivers, some of which have gone on to become the swiss army knife of the speaker world(ex:2226, 2241, 2242), so I don't know that it has really worked out in their(EV's) favor.
Originally Posted by killersoundz
But the 18's in those kick bins aren't even close to being on the level of that 180B. I've scoped them out they're pretty wimpy, I'd say they're in the 3 or 4mm xmax range of woofers
Could be the DL18mt then which was the precursor to the EVX, both have the same xmax of 5.5mm but the DL was only rated at 400w. If there is anything else in the cabs then it's no wonder they perform so badly.. there aren't many other suitable drivers.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Originally Posted by A.M. Productions
So lets see here. What amps are you using to push the subs. The Nady subs should be burned. They are not even suitable for my HT Setup.
He's using a pair of Crown Macrotech 2400's. They're rated at 800w/channel at 4 ohms. I assume that's how he's running them. I agree at 400w per driver the Nady's *should* be toast. However he's running a fourth order 40hz HP I believe and that may be saving them.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Originally Posted by killersoundz
He's using a pair of Crown Macrotech 2400's. They're rated at 800w/channel at 4 ohms. I assume that's how he's running them. I agree at 400w per driver the Nady's *should* be toast. However he's running a fourth order 40hz HP I believe and that may be saving them.
Any lower and the POS would bottom out. The cab is only rated for 800 Watts max. If he clips the amps at all the Nadys should die just like that. The specs say they go down to 20Hz. I really doubt that. The box would probably fall apart.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
The club actually looks like a nice place..not a dive that folks like to toss beer bottles in. For a more finished and "elegant look, which I think will compliment the looks of the club, what is the possibility of building the 18" sub cabs into the front of the stage? What's the height of the stage?
Carrying on with the "clean look" I'd even recommend suspending the mains from the ceiling angled downward a bit. Also mount at least one main towards the tables to the sides of the stage for better coverage.
Also, the bar is pretty close to the stage. Too much bass and the bartender and bar manager will hate "you" for causing their glasses to scoot off the shelves.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Looks like I have to hold off on the build for a little bit, he said the city cracked down on them for their signage and he's gotta use the funds for that right now or something. Ah!!! Wanna build!
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
A good solution would be to "accidentally" blow the Nadys up and replace them with... just about anything!
The Peavey lowrider 18's give a lot of performance for the price, four of them would be a much cheaper option and should destroy the dual 15's in LF extension.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
How does the system sound with just the EV's running? The EV subs can actually be processed close to a flat response. In the system's processor (since every modern system should have a digital processor), use a high pass filter at 40 Hz, then apply a wide-Q parametric EQ boost at 60 Hz of +6dB, or else cut 3dB around 100 Hz and 5 dB at 150 Hz (if you prefer to use cuts instead of boosts due to processor headroom). This should make the subs passable for most music.
These subs use the poorly-conceived "SubScoop" concept that uses a reflex-tuned chamber ported into a horn that is most efficient around 100-150 Hz to increase the sensation of 'kick', and this arrangement helps reduce the cone excursion above the tuning frequency, but results in a very nonlinear response. If you can EQ the subs back to flat (and they really should always have had a processor to accomplish this, if EV had done the design right) then you still get the benefit of the SubScoop enclosure without its drawbacks.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Originally Posted by Taterworks
How does the system sound with just the EV's running? The EV subs can actually be processed close to a flat response. In the system's processor (since every modern system should have a digital processor), use a high pass filter at 40 Hz, then apply a wide-Q parametric EQ boost at 60 Hz of +6dB, or else cut 3dB around 100 Hz and 5 dB at 150 Hz (if you prefer to use cuts instead of boosts due to processor headroom). This should make the subs passable for most music.
These subs use the poorly-conceived "SubScoop" concept that uses a reflex-tuned chamber ported into a horn that is most efficient around 100-150 Hz to increase the sensation of 'kick', and this arrangement helps reduce the cone excursion above the tuning frequency, but results in a very nonlinear response. If you can EQ the subs back to flat (and they really should always have had a processor to accomplish this, if EV had done the design right) then you still get the benefit of the SubScoop enclosure without its drawbacks.
He added the dual 15's later on so I've heard just the EV's themselves. Keep in mind he's got the system RTA'd on a driverack too. They're just weak. No amount of EQ is going to make them hit hard at 35-45hz which is what they need for dance music.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
If extreme low end is what the client needs, I'd look into a pair of JBL SRX728, or some used JBL SR4719X (both are dual-18's). The SRX728 are amazing, and move a ton of air, and the SR4719X (pre-SRX-series SR-series dual-18's) aren't far behind but are much physically larger.
Anything you build will need to be tuned pretty low, and be pretty large. Bass reflex is probably the order of the day. Use the best drivers from B&C that your client can afford.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Originally Posted by Taterworks
Use the best drivers from B&C that your client can afford.
The TBX100's arent much higher than the Eminence. And supposedly, they've got a new standard motor 18 that's supposed to keep up with the neo drivers on thermals and xmax... and reportedly won't shred in a horn.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Originally Posted by Taterworks
If extreme low end is what the client needs, I'd look into a pair of JBL SRX728, or some used JBL SR4719X (both are dual-18's). The SRX728 are amazing, and move a ton of air, and the SR4719X (pre-SRX-series SR-series dual-18's) aren't far behind but are much physically larger.
Anything you build will need to be tuned pretty low, and be pretty large. Bass reflex is probably the order of the day. Use the best drivers from B&C that your client can afford.
Well for the cost of a pair of the JBL dual 18's I can build him 4 dual 18's with definimax's, tune them pretty low and make some money on the deal. The Definimax boxes would be 48x22x31, lots of volume. Just a pair of dual 18's, yes even the JBL's, isn't going to get this room pumping like we want it. 8-18's on the other hand, more in the ball park.
Since they won't be getting full power especially I can probably aim for a port tuning around 35hz or so and be good.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
I think the G Sub will be too small for the drivers the OP plans to use. The Eminence 18" drivers tend to like a very large box when tuned low, because while they are very economical drivers, they don't have the most powerful motor structures. A customized design for the Eminence drivers will give the best low bass performance.
Before building the G Subs with these drivers, be sure to simulate the performance of the Eminence drivers will be satisfactory in the box. Don't just assume.
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Originally Posted by Taterworks
I think the G Sub will be too small for the drivers the OP plans to use. The Eminence 18" drivers tend to like a very large box when tuned low, because while they are very economical drivers, they don't have the most powerful motor structures. A customized design for the Eminence drivers will give the best low bass performance.
Before building the G Subs with these drivers, be sure to simulate the performance of the Eminence drivers will be satisfactory in the box. Don't just assume.
Yes yes, I appreciate your concern and thoroughness here but I'm far from a newb. I'll actually even one up it and break in a couple of the woofers and put them on my woofer tester to arrive at a more accurate model...
Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread
Originally Posted by killersoundz
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. The 'mains' are a pair of Yorkville dual 10's + 1" exit horn hanging from the ceiling.
P.S. Just saw them on PSSL for $209ea!! Holy pile-o-doggydo batman, those things aren't worth the cardboard boxes they were shipped in.
