Veneer application advise

[donradick]

Congratulations - looks very good, and you were able to handle the "oopsey" goof when you had bubbles. I wonder if some kind of solvent wouldn't have taken off the TitanDX, but I know now not to try to sand it. Probably a scraper would work.

Very nice baffle holes and edges.

[cacophonix]

Looks great! I see that Titan DX has been recommended for backed veneers only. Unfortunately, i have only raw veneer and have used them using the iron-on method with varying results. Is there an alternative to iron on for raw veneers? I don't have a vac press to use cold press glue ...

[jimangie1973]

Thanks for the comments. Overall it turned out really well. It's pretty easy with the Titan. The dado clean out flush trim bit works awesome for the recesses. It is so easy and comes out perfect, almost no sanding even needed around the cutout.

Congratulations - looks very good, and you were able to handle the "oopsey" goof when you had bubbles. I wonder if some kind of solvent wouldn't have taken off the TitanDX, but I know now not to try to sand it. Probably a scraper would work.

Very nice baffle holes and edges.

That's a good question. I searched cleaning up Titan DX and only found soap and water, which doesn't dissolve it. I tried the scraper too. That just smeared it as well. I couldn't use too much force or it would have dug into the MDF. As it is, I got the existing Titan DX coat pretty smooth. This was within an hour of the initial bond attempt so the glue may still have had some activation left. I glued over it soon after. We'll see if it lasts, but it's perfect so far.

Right now I'm thinking just polyurethane coats as a finish. I really like the wood grain as it is.

cacophonix, I would start a thread with your question. You'll get the answer for sure.

Jim

[bungelow_ed]

Looks great! I see that Titan DX has been recommended for backed veneers only. Unfortunately, i have only raw veneer and have used them using the iron-on method with varying results. Is there an alternative to iron on for raw veneers? I don't have a vac press to use cold press glue ...

Cold-press glue works with mechanical pressure as well as vacuum pressure. I have a vacuum press but only use it for baffles where I have a round over.

For cabinet sides just do the following. Gather all your clamps. Cut two pieces of 3/4" MDF 1/2-3/4" larger than the panel to be veneered. roll out the glue, apply the veneer, lay the MDF over the veneer and clamp.

Depending on the size of panel being veneered you might want to use a couple of cauls to distribute the clamping force evenly. If the veneer you use is prone to bleed through, put wax paper between the veneer and the MDF. Veneer is also prone to some movewment when clamped, to solve this problem use painters tape to secure the veneer in place. You just need a couple of pieces along each edge.

A dry run is highly recommended until you are comfortable and confident in the results you will get. Hope this helps.

[cacophonix]

Thanks very much, bungelow_ed!

[fastbike1]

One more tip on cold press. Before you apply the clamps, take a minute or two to roll out or scape the veneer from center to edge. This will eliminate any bubbles that you might have. You're trying to collapse the bubbles or move them to the edge and out.

Thanks very much, bungelow_ed!

[LouC]

....
The 2nd speaker went perfect as I learned from all my blunders on the 1st. I've attached pictures of the results. Any finishing suggestions are welcome. They are red oak. The drivers are the Seas DXT and U18. I'm doing a modifed Idunn. I'll probably add a little more baffle step as I've heard the Idunn sounds a little thin. I'll be taking measurements next weekend.

I want to say a special thanks to Lou who's suggestions helped immensely. I hope all is going okay for you in this rough time. God bless you.

Glad you got it down. Roundovers are always tough to get right, especially with oak and a tight radius. If the edges aren't straight and square before you rout them, veneer won't deform much. You can use a veneer softener and a rubber mallet too. Give 'em a wipe coat of dewaxed shellac before you clear coat, you'll be happier with the result.

Thanks for the sentiments, my wife passed on May 17. Gotta get through everything, plan the memorial service, and finish her memorial subwoofer for the church. Tired of answering phones, and telling the story.

[jimangie1973]

Glad you got it down. Roundovers are always tough to get right, especially with oak and a tight radius. If the edges aren't straight and square before you rout them, veneer won't deform much. You can use a veneer softener and a rubber mallet too. Give 'em a wipe coat of dewaxed shellac before you clear coat, you'll be happier with the result.

Thanks for the sentiments, my wife passed on May 17. Gotta get through everything, plan the memorial service, and finish her memorial subwoofer for the church. Tired of answering phones, and telling the story.

Great to have you here. I'm sure it has been a very stressful and sad time in your life. Thanks for taking some time to help for such a relatively trivial thing.

The roundovers actually went very well after I used enough adhesive. The red oak sands down very smooth around the curve. I wanted to do 3/4" radius curves but there are no 1/4" shaft bits which do it, only 1/2". My router won't handle the bigger bits.

I again took your advise and bought the dewaxed shellac. I've put on the first wipe and it's drying now. It really darkens the grain to where it's now a standard natural oak finish. Really nice. Thanks.

Jim

[fastbike1]

There's your next upgrade.

. . . . My router won't handle the bigger bits.

. . .

Jim

[jimangie1973]

There's your next upgrade.

Haha. Really funny you say that because I was at Lowes last weekend and had the Bosch router combo with the plunge attachment box pulled out with a 3/4" roundover bit ready to buy. I came to my senses I guess and couldn't pull the trigger.

I've got three coats of shellac on now and they're looking really nice. I'm not sure I even need to add the poly. I don't really need high durability. What do you recommend for a final surface buff? When looking at a high angle you can see some wipe marks. I don't want an overly shiny appearance. 0000 steel wool, 320 sandpaper?

Jim

[LouC]

Use a pad, and dilute the shellac 1:2 with denatured alcohol. ONE quick swipe. Should smooth it out. With Oak, it will never be seen.

[jimangie1973]

Use a pad, and dilute the shellac 1:2 with denatured alcohol. ONE quick swipe. Should smooth it out. With Oak, it will never be seen.

Will do.

[JarOfSonicMen]

I had somewhat less luck with my first try with Titan DX and had to redo a couple of sides. I found a way to get it off.

You're right: it won't sand, not at all. But having spent years rolling the rubber cement off the back of magazine labels, I had an idea.

I started rubbing the Titan DX, and low and behold, it peeled off the MDF. Ok, not like rubber cement, it was WORK, and after my finger started getting raw, I went and got a leather glove. The leather glove is somewhat worse for wear, but the cement all came off. Much better to get it right the first time - I used cold press veneer glue for 4 sides of my MLTL Aviatrixes. It's only taken me 2 years to get them almost finished...

[jimangie1973]

I had somewhat less luck with my first try with Titan DX and had to redo a couple of sides. I found a way to get it off.

You're right: it won't sand, not at all. But having spent years rolling the rubber cement off the back of magazine labels, I had an idea.

I started rubbing the Titan DX, and low and behold, it peeled off the MDF. Ok, not like rubber cement, it was WORK, and after my finger started getting raw, I went and got a leather glove. The leather glove is somewhat worse for wear, but the cement all came off. Much better to get it right the first time - I used cold press veneer glue for 4 sides of my MLTL Aviatrixes. It's only taken me 2 years to get them almost finished...

Yea, much easier is right. The first speaker was a major PITA. I started doing the exact same thing with my fingers to remove the Titan. My finger was raw after I had removed about a 3 inch x 3 inch square so I gave up. When I reapplied the veneer, I scraped it with major force so hopefully it holds up. It's perfect thus far.

Lou, I did the dilution and it worked awesome. I actually went over several times with the diluted solution, spaced by about 1 minute each time. It gradually smoothed to a perfect finish. There's some little pooling marks at the edges but you can't see them unless you're close at an exact angle. No poly coat for now. I'll see how it holds up.

Today I'll be adding the damping, binding posts, wiring, and drivers. No crossovers yet. I need to do measurements.

Jim

Jim

[LouC]

Shellac, IMHO, is the most versatile and under-appreciated finishing solution in the shop. Easy to repair too. Just keep the cocktails off those speakers

[jimangie1973]

Shellac, IMHO, is the most versatile and under-appreciated finishing solution in the shop. Easy to repair too. Just keep the cocktails off those speakers

Right. I will avoid the liquids near them for sure. I've already had to do a couple of repairs of the finish and it is very easy. That's a huge plus.

I've got one of the speakers done, minus crossover as I still have to measure and design the crossover. See the attached pics. I'm thinking of doing something very similar to MarkK's LR2 with the DXT tweeter. Not sure whether to do that or something LR4 like the Idunn.

Jim

[weinstro]

I'm a complete novice with veneering. I've ordered a couple of 4x8 sheets of 22 mil paper backed veneer, red oak and walnut, both flat cut. I'm on the fence on whether to do contact cement or iron-on wood glue, Titebond 3 maybe.

I tried the iron on wood glue, and didn't have very good results. The edges won't stick well and this becomes evident when you trim the edge with a flush trim router bit. I'm unlikely to try this method again.

What did work was applying the glue to both sides with a roller, and then cold pressing them. Use cauls to apply even pressure.

I have not tried contact cement.

Regards,

Rob

[Mobautodo]

Santa wrote:
I have never had a job I hated, and when I got one I wasnt happy in I soon left it. I wonder if you should be looking for another management job where you can make a fresh start, rather than driving?

[LouC]

You are either the wisest DIY geek, or the most patient. Everybody else builds the boxes, tunes the speakers in, listens for awhile to raw mdf boxes. Then, maybe, they do they finishing... Finishing the boxes first, wow that's self discipline.

[jimangie1973]

You are either the wisest DIY geek, or the most patient. Everybody else builds the boxes, tunes the speakers in, listens for awhile to raw mdf boxes. Then, maybe, they do they finishing... Finishing the boxes first, wow that's self discipline.

No, I have no self discipline. Wish I did but I don't. The only reason I finished them first is I was more excited to see how the finishing would turn out than how the speaker would sound. I've done several designs but never build and veneered my own boxes from scratch. With that said, once done I had to measure, design the crossover prelim version and start listening.... They're sounding good but I think the regular polyfill is not doing quite the job the AcoustaStuf does. The money pit continues...

Jim