Question about my finished Amigas

[sunny2151]

I just finished Paul Carmody's Amigas, and they are supposed to have a pretty good amount of bass. The speaker placements and the room they are in isnt ideal, but the bass seems lacking. If I listen closely I can hear it and sometimes I can feel it slightly, but it isnt prominent. And when I do hear the bass, it sounds frail. Its almost like somebody turned up the volume of the higher frequencies and lowered the volume of the lower frequencies. Im powering them out of a Denon AVR-1609 receiver. Is this how these speakers are intended to sound, or could I have messed up during the building process? Everything else about them sounds very good. It might just be me being picky.

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy/amiga

[sonex]

I never heard the amigas, but I own a denon 1611 and was not happy with it for music it was great for HT though. I bought a vintage onkyo 2500 mkii with only 40 watts per channel and my speakers came alive better bass and more punch. I don't know if its me or if the modern HT denons are lacking in 2 channel performance.

[sunny2151]

I dont really like how it has so many setting. It doesn't seem to be geared towards 2 channel music. But I don't think it would have this big of an effect. I'm honestly thinking about just putting them in some smaller cabinets with a sub.

[sunny2151]

I might try a simple t-amp one of these days.

[Steve Henry]

Just a thought. I had a Denon previously. In 2 channel listening, I still had to turn off the subwoofer function in the receiver or it was crossing the L & R's like the sub was playing.

[sunny2151]

I turned it off and lowered the crossover, but maybe i didn't do it completely. Too many settings! I'll go check that now. I feel like I'd rather have a simple amp for music.

[Paul Carmody]

It really sounds like a "small speaker" setting on the amp. And yes, I agree, most integrated amps are way overcomplicated nowadays.

Does your amp have a "pure direct" mode?

[bkeane1259]

Try DIRECT MODE:

Press D/ST and select DIRECT. That should defeat any surround sound settings.

Here's your manual if you need:

[jmc207]

I bought a Denon AVR-1911 about a 1.5 years ago and it sounded awful, thin and no bass, when I first hooked it up just as a two-channel receiver. Kinda like how you are describing. Finally went into the setup and changed what Bryan is referring to and it became quite good. Still a bit thinner than my H/K receiver but cleaner. Also, FWIW, using the built-in DAC seemed thinner and brighter than running my Matrix-mini dac into a line-level input.

And just have to add, are your woofers in phase? I pick up on that right away now, but 20 years ago, I listened to my system out of phase for a day or two w/o realizing it. Wasn't seated, however, just working around the house.

Oh, and another thing, were you using other full range speakers with the Denon before trying the Amigas, and if so, did they have substantially more bass?

[sonex]

I know the 1611 has a pure direct you do need to go to that. The 1611 has a stereo 2 channel mode also. don't know what features your model has though.

[Ryan]

I have a Denon 1604 and it has bass management that sets the speakers on small when operating a sub , annoying! Thankfully this is not the case on my Denon 2801.
I also have built the Amigas and they certainly don't lack bass!

[sunny2151]

I bought a Denon AVR-1911 about a 1.5 years ago and it sounded awful, thin and no bass, when I first hooked it up just as a two-channel receiver. Kinda like how you are describing. Finally went into the setup and changed what Bryan is referring to and it became quite good. Still a bit thinner than my H/K receiver but cleaner. Also, FWIW, using the built-in DAC seemed thinner and brighter than running my Matrix-mini dac into a line-level input.

And just have to add, are your woofers in phase? I pick up on that right away now, but 20 years ago, I listened to my system out of phase for a day or two w/o realizing it. Wasn't seated, however, just working around the house.

Oh, and another thing, were you using other full range speakers with the Denon before trying the Amigas, and if so, did they have substantially more bass?

What exactly do you mean by out of phase? I'm still learning all this stuff.

[sunny2151]

Try DIRECT MODE:

Press D/ST and select DIRECT. That should defeat any surround sound settings.

Here's your manual if you need:

I just turned it from stereo to direct and they sound a little less muffled. The bass is a little tighter, but it doesnt thump.

[sunny2151]

It really sounds like a "small speaker" setting on the amp. And yes, I agree, most integrated amps are way overcomplicated nowadays.

Does your amp have a "pure direct" mode?

Are they supposed to have thumping bass? They sound awesome, they just dont thump

[sunny2151]

I messed with the settings a little more. I found that the receiver sets the surrounds and center, that I don't have, as small. I turned those off and did what you guys said and the bass definitely improved. Since I'm sort of a bass addict, I'm still thinking about making some nice curved 10-11 liter cabinets and then building a nice subwoofer with a cabinet from DIY sound group or PE. Any thoughts? Sorry for asking so many questions and making so many replies.

[jmc207]

What exactly do you mean by out of phase? I'm still learning all this stuff.

"When polarity is wrong, the speakers will be out of phase. One will move in, while the other moves out. At the listening position (right in between the speakers) the displaced air from one will be cancelled out by the other. This effect - stronger at lower frequencies - will result in a loss of bass. It also drastically distorts the stereo imaging." From: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

Usually it would just mean that your speaker wires are reversed on on speaker as compared to the other. With a home assembled speaker it could also be reversed wire in the crossover or to the internal side of the binding post.

[AudioSQ]

I'll soon build some Amigas (if the tweeter ever comes back in stock) and I'm going to build an infinity 1260w sub to go along with it. It's only 60 bucks, so if budget's a concern it could be a good fit for you. It is supposed to have good SQ as well. Obviously the Dayton RS line of subs are nice and I've never heard a bad thing said about TC Sound's Epics if you're willing to spend a little bit more money. I guess the question is, if going with a sub what is your budget? What size box are you looking for?

Bruce

[fbov]

"Thump" is an onomatopoeia that I associate with "boom" as a sign of peaky, 1-note bass. It's not hard to make a bass-deficient speaker "sound" like it has a lot of bass. Conversely, it can be quite difficult to recognize smooth extended bass response if you're listening for the thump.

Listen for more of a whump than a thump... bass pedal drums are a personal favorite; they should sound lower than any bass guitar note. Whump.

Have fun,
Frank

[sunny2151]

I'll soon build some Amigas (if the tweeter ever comes back in stock) and I'm going to build an infinity 1260w sub to go along with it. It's only 60 bucks, so if budget's a concern it could be a good fit for you. It is supposed to have good SQ as well. Obviously the Dayton RS line of subs are nice and I've never heard a bad thing said about TC Sound's Epics if you're willing to spend a little bit more money. I guess the question is, if going with a sub what is your budget? What size box are you looking for?

Bruce

PE has been out of stock forever. I bought them at madisound for around the same price. The shipping was great too. I was thinking about building a dayton reference sub. So I think I might build some smaller cabinets so that I can move them around to college and stuff. I wish PE had them in stock, but here's the link to those tweeters.

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-dome-tweeter/

[sunny2151]

Listen for more of a whump than a thump... bass pedal drums are a personal favorite; they should sound lower than any bass guitar note. Whump.

They definitely extend pretty low. It sounds good with bands like the John Mayer Trio and Coldplay. I think I'm just one of those people that would like to have a nice sub since I listen to many genres, including heavier hip hop with a lot of bass.