Imperial Russian Stouts - Fountek 3 Way

[fastbike1]

AKA Imperials.
DX25TG09, FW146, 2x FW168
Crossover Design by Jay (Brewski)
Black Walnut Baffle, Figured German Beech Veneer over plywood. Waterlox for finish.

Didn't seem like it would ever happen. Like several others, painting the cab led to several problems and required stripping then veneering the cabs. I am pleased with the final finish, and I learned a ton about some of the construction choices I made.

At the risk of being over-subtle, these speakers really are a home run. Tight bass, clear mids, orderly highs. Kick drums thump, acoustic bass sounds like you're in front of the stage. Vocals (Alison Krauss, Norah Jones, Ella Fitzgerald, and Lyle Lovett) are clear and display each singer's style perfectly. I've heard Lyle live six times and the speakers nail his sound.
I have some solo cello pieces that really put the cello in the room. I could not be happier about the sound quality. So far, I've only run them through a Squeezebox and a DTA-100A. With better (more) power I expect them to be a further revelation.

I can't thank Jay (Brewski) enough for his design, patience, and encouragement. Best news: All of these drivers are available.

Design Thread here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...light=imperial

Build Thread here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=228238

[Brewski]

They look beautiful hopefully they'll give you many many years of service as your mains and HT speakers. Thanks for building them.... Alright if I add a link to my sig for them?

Take it easy
Jay

crossover info:

[fastbike1]

Jay: absolutely feel free to link

More pics.

[JasonP]

They do indeed look amazing. I hope they sound like they look! Someday I'll finish my Wavefronts, but I'm too busy listening to them to take them down and do that @.@ I should never have set them up before they were cosmetically done.

[sriegel923]

those look fantastic! i love the figuring/grain pattern on the veneer. makes me want to start another project. congratulations and thanks for the build links. i'm heading there right now.
Scott
Duvall, WA

[Paul K.]

Very nice job and while I know you're tickled pink with how they sound, I want to make the point about your comparison to live sound. When you say you've heard Lyle Lovett live 6 times and your new speakers nail his sound, you must realize you didn't really hear Lyle "live" at those concerts. Yes, Lyle was singing live in front of you, but he was singing into a microphone, whose signal was processed through who knows how many stages of electronics and, likely, equalization, then through some power amplifiers, ending up coming out of some speakers. So, when anyone says their system sounds exactly like what they heard by the same performers in concert as in your example, what we're really saying is the sound coming from our system is exactly like the sound coming from another system, albeit at a live performance. The only true way to compare to a live sound is when that live sound is not in the least augmented or affected by electronics and/or speakers. Please do not take what I've said as criticism of your accomplishment, as it's absolutely not meant to be that. Rather, just view what I've said as a little bit of reality. Again, you did a really good job and your speakers look might nice.
Paul

[QUOTE=fastbike1;1840441]AKA Imperials.
DX25TG09, FW146, 2x FW168
Crossover Design by Jay (Brewski)
Black Walnut Baffle, Figured German Beech Veneer over plywood. Waterlox for finish.

Didn't seem like it would ever happen. Like several others, painting the cab led to several problems and required stripping then veneering the cabs. I am pleased with the final finish, and I learned a ton about some of the construction choices I made.

At the risk of being over-subtle, these speakers really are a home run. Tight bass, clear mids, orderly highs. Kick drums thump, acoustic bass sound like you're in front of the stage. Vocals (Alison Krauss, Norah Jones, Ella Fitzgerald, and Lyle Lovett) are clear and display each singer's style perfectly. I've heard Lyle live six times and the speakers nail his sound.
I have some solo cello pieces that really put the cello in the room. I could not be happier about the sound quality. So far, I've only run them through a Squeezebox and a DTA-100A. With better (more) power I expect them to be a further revelation.

I can't thank Jay (Brewski) enough for his design, patience, and encouragement. Best news: All of these drivers are available.

Design Thread here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...light=imperial

Build Thread here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=228238

[fastbike1]

I know what your're saying, but I don't get your intent. With the exception of symphonic, chamber, or small venue jazz, one almost never hears music without some associated processing chain. Your definition foregoes any amplified music, i.e. even a simple guitar and amp. Continuing with that logic how would one ever have "reference" music for comparison? So we should have this pedantic caveat whenever we describe a system's sound? It's hard enough as it is.

However just so we're all perfectly clear, I do know what a live guitar, kick drum, bass, cello, violin, orchestra, etc sounds like. FWIW, Lyle has a characteristic sound from his guitar/soundman/mixing panel, etc. The Imperials faithfully reproduce that sound.

Also, it's Jays accomplishment, I just built them.


[QUOTE=Paul K.;1840468]Very nice job and while I know you're tickled pink with how they sound, I want to make the point about your comparison to live sound. When you say you've heard Lyle Lovett live 6 times and your new speakers nail his sound, you must realize you didn't really hear Lyle "live" at those concerts. Yes, Lyle was singing live in front of you, but he was singing into a microphone, whose signal was processed through who knows how many stages of electronics and, likely, equalization, then through some power amplifiers, ending up coming out of some speakers. So, when anyone says their system sounds exactly like what they heard by the same performers in concert as in your example, what we're really saying is the sound coming from our system is exactly like the sound coming from another system, albeit at a live performance. The only true way to compare to a live sound is when that live sound is not in the least augmented or affected by electronics and/or speakers. Please do not take what I've said as criticism of your accomplishment, as it's absolutely not meant to be that. Rather, just view what I've said as a little bit of reality. Again, you did a really good job and your speakers look might nice.
Paul

AKA Imperials.
DX25TG09, FW146, 2x FW168
Crossover Design by Jay (Brewski)
Black Walnut Baffle, Figured German Beech Veneer over plywood. Waterlox for finish.

Didn't seem like it would ever happen. Like several others, painting the cab led to several problems and required stripping then veneering the cabs. I am pleased with the final finish, and I learned a ton about some of the construction choices I made.

At the risk of being over-subtle, these speakers really are a home run. Tight bass, clear mids, orderly highs. Kick drums thump, acoustic bass sound like you're in front of the stage. Vocals (Alison Krauss, Norah Jones, Ella Fitzgerald, and Lyle Lovett) are clear and display each singer's style perfectly. I've heard Lyle live six times and the speakers nail his sound.
I have some solo cello pieces that really put the cello in the room. I could not be happier about the sound quality. So far, I've only run them through a Squeezebox and a DTA-100A. With better (more) power I expect them to be a further revelation.

I can't thank Jay (Brewski) enough for his design, patience, and encouragement. Best news: All of these drivers are available.

Design Thread here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...light=imperial

Build Thread here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=228238

[Brewski]

Also, it's Jays accomplishment, I just built them.

Don't short change your cabinet handy work I wish I could make something that looked that nice from scratch and the part that will be noticed over the internet was all you.

Take it easy
Jay

[greywarden]

Pure sexiness. I cant wait to get back home and get my hands dirty on the Deadhorse project again.

[Paul K.]

The point I'm trying to get across is that for the most part whenever anyone says "when I'm listening to (him/her/them) on my system, they sound exactly like when I've heard them live at concerts", with the unrealized implication, and belief, perhaps, that their system is able to accurately able to reproduce a truly live performance that has not been electronically altered and, that, hearing those performers without any of the electronic manipulation or effects would sound the same. For my case I only attend performances by symphony orchestras where there is no electronic meddling with the sound. The one time I did attend a "live" performance in the last 20 years that was altered, which happened to be one by Doc Severson (sp?) and the Tonight Show band, I was sorely and completely disappointed because all I heard was coming from mikes and amplifier and speakers, not the least bit live in my opinion, even though there were live musicians performing on stage. I'm not saying that my audio system can completely and accurately reproduce a truly live performance by a symphony orchestra, because that will probably never be able to be accomplished, but it is the reference I use. Yes, you are correct; my definition does preclude any and all amplified music, including a single guitar and amp/speaker. That's okay because I don't listen or much like those types of instruments or music. Nothing wrong with other people liking it, however.
Paul

[QUOTE=fastbike1;1840475]I know what your're saying, but I don't get your intent. With the exception of symphonic, chamber, or small venue jazz, one almost never hears music without some associated processing chain. Your definition foregoes any amplified music, i.e. even a simple guitar and amp. Continuing with that logic how would one ever have "reference" music for comparison? So we should have this pedantic caveat whenever we describe a system's sound? It's hard enough as it is.

However just so we're all perfectly clear, I do know what a live guitar, kick drum, bass, cello, violin, orchestra, etc sounds like. FWIW, Lyle has a characteristic sound from his guitar/soundman/mixing panel, etc. The Imperials faithfully reproduce that sound.

Also, it's Jays accomplishment, I just built them.

Very nice job and while I know you're tickled pink with how they sound, I want to make the point about your comparison to live sound. When you say you've heard Lyle Lovett live 6 times and your new speakers nail his sound, you must realize you didn't really hear Lyle "live" at those concerts. Yes, Lyle was singing live in front of you, but he was singing into a microphone, whose signal was processed through who knows how many stages of electronics and, likely, equalization, then through some power amplifiers, ending up coming out of some speakers. So, when anyone says their system sounds exactly like what they heard by the same performers in concert as in your example, what we're really saying is the sound coming from our system is exactly like the sound coming from another system, albeit at a live performance. The only true way to compare to a live sound is when that live sound is not in the least augmented or affected by electronics and/or speakers. Please do not take what I've said as criticism of your accomplishment, as it's absolutely not meant to be that. Rather, just view what I've said as a little bit of reality. Again, you did a really good job and your speakers look might nice.
Paul

[fastbike1]

I debated responding again but I'll just leave it at: I think you miss the point with your narrow definition. When I play a Lyle Lovett tune, his guitar sounds like it does when I see him on stage. No more, but no less.

The point I'm trying to get across is that for the most part whenever anyone says "when I'm listening to (him/her/them) on my system, they sound exactly like when I've heard them live at concerts", with the unrealized implication, and belief, perhaps, that their system is able to accurately able to reproduce a truly live performance that has not been electronically altered and, that, hearing those performers without any of the electronic manipulation or effects would sound the same. For my case I only attend performances by symphony orchestras where there is no electronic meddling with the sound. The one time I did attend a "live" performance in the last 20 years that was altered, which happened to be one by Doc Severson (sp?) and the Tonight Show band, I was sorely and completely disappointed because all I heard was coming from mikes and amplifier and speakers, not the least bit live in my opinion, even though there were live musicians performing on stage. I'm not saying that my audio system can completely and accurately reproduce a truly live performance by a symphony orchestra, because that will probably never be able to be accomplished, but it is the reference I use. Yes, you are correct; my definition does preclude any and all amplified music, including a single guitar and amp/speaker. That's okay because I don't listen or much like those types of instruments or music. Nothing wrong with other people liking it, however.
Paul

[Paul K.]

That's odd. I got email notifications that you had responded twice to me in this thread but only this one shows up in the thread. Did you delete the one where you said you agreed with me on no system ever being able to reproduce accurately a symphony orchestra but that you felt sad for me? Don't feel sad because of my musical tastes; I'm not missing anything just because I don't listen to or like popular or amplified music. We all have our likes and dislikes (I hate beer but love wine) and just because ours aren't the same as others doesn't mean either of us is less fortunate or missing out.
Paul

I debated responding again but I'll just leave it at: I think you miss the point with your narrow definition. When I play a Lyle Lovett tune, his guitar sounds like it does when I see him on stage. No more, but no less.

[greywarden]

Y'all shut the hell up. Bickering like children.

[fastbike1]

You know, it was done well before you added your reasoned guidance.

Y'all shut the hell up. Bickering like children.

[Paul K.]

I'm not really bickering or arguing with you and I apologize for not stating my point(s) clearly enough. Thus, I want to take one more shot at it. First this has nothing to do with musical preferences and there is no intent on my part of criticizing your or anyone's preferences.

I would certainly hope that when one listens at home to music, from a CD for instance, that's a performance one could also hear "live" via all amplified sound, the musical reproduction at home should fairly easily and accurately replicate that live performance within reasonable expectations of dynamic and loudness abilities, and frequency response to a lesser extent. IOW considering those 3 probable limitations, what you hear at home ought to sound very, very close to what you would hear "live", and the fact that you enjoy it because you really like that kind of music is icing on the cake, actually. When you listen at home and compare it to a "live" performance, essentially the only difference in the chain is your source at home is a CD, for instance, and the "live" source is a vocalist singing into a mike, both comparison sounds going through similar electronic manipulation and amplification to exit a speaker system.

But what I'm saying is even though the above is true, on a purely technical basis a better measure of your audio systems capabilities is to compare its sound to that of live un-amplified and non-augmented music. which is virtually impossible to achieve with any popular music just due to the nature of the process. For me, then, this reference can only be a symphony orchestra. The fact I don't like or particularly care for other types of music is besides the point.
Paul

You know, it was done well before you added your reasoned guidance.

[bungelow_ed]

Those are some very nice looking cabinets... the Walnut sapwood really ratchets up the contrasts and adds a lot of interest. Glad to see you have been busy lately.

[manu et deo]

those are beautiful, makes me want to run out and buy them: oh wait! you can only get the kind of quality(at that pricepoint) if you build them yourself! IMO

[fastbike1]

Paul, I do understand what you're saying. I do think that "your" standard is even more difficult to compare. Here's why: I frequently attend the symphony in both Fort Worth and Dallas. I have heard both orchestras do the same piece and they do not sound at all alike. I have a distinct preference for Fort Worth, both because I much prefer Bass Hall's acoustics to The Myerson and I much prefer the Fort Worth Symphony to the DSO.

In this case, one would need a piece performed by these orchestras, yes? Like you, I suspect, I have multiple copies of various classical pieces by multiple conductors and orchestras. Some vary significantly in sound, not just recording technique. What to do in theses cases?

What affronted me originally is the notion that I somehow did not understand what I was hearing. That may not have been (now I don't think it was) your intention, but that's what I got. Probably should have stated that up front and I suspect we would have been on common ground.

Personally, I did not see this as bickering but more as two distinct viewpoints trying to be clear to each other.

I'm not really bickering or arguing with you and I apologize for not stating my point(s) clearly enough. Thus, I want to take one more shot at it. First this has nothing to do with musical preferences and there is no intent on my part of criticizing your or anyone's preferences.

I would certainly hope that when one listens at home to music, from a CD for instance, that's a performance one could also hear "live" via all amplified sound, the musical reproduction at home should fairly easily and accurately replicate that live performance within reasonable expectations of dynamic and loudness abilities, and frequency response to a lesser extent. IOW considering those 3 probable limitations, what you hear at home ought to sound very, very close to what you would hear "live", and the fact that you enjoy it because you really like that kind of music is icing on the cake, actually. When you listen at home and compare it to a "live" performance, essentially the only difference in the chain is your source at home is a CD, for instance, and the "live" source is a vocalist singing into a mike, both comparison sounds going through similar electronic manipulation and amplification to exit a speaker system.

But what I'm saying is even though the above is true, on a purely technical basis a better measure of your audio systems capabilities is to compare its sound to that of live un-amplified and non-augmented music. which is virtually impossible to achieve with any popular music just due to the nature of the process. For me, then, this reference can only be a symphony orchestra. The fact I don't like or particularly care for other types of music is besides the point.
Paul

[Paul K.]

Oh, you're absolutely correct; the venues play a really big part of how orchestras sound. And, different orchestras on different CDs playing the same score will sound different. Probably a better and more practical live reference would be a small ensemble, like a string quartet, quintet, or sextet, although the frequency range will be more limited than if an orchestra, but our audio systems will have a much better chance of replicating the same dynamic range and ultimate loudness of a smaller group. Not to beat a dead horse, I just don't take think a lot of people often take into account reality when they gush about how well their systems reproduce "live" performances they attend where all the music is coming from speakers and an amplification/EQ chain. In any event, live and let live!
Paul

Paul, I do understand what you're saying. I do think that "your" standard is even more difficult to compare. Here's why: I frequently attend the symphony in both Fort Worth and Dallas. I have heard both orchestras do the same piece and they do not sound at all alike. I have a distinct preference for Fort Worth, both because I much prefer Bass Hall's acoustics to The Myerson and I much prefer the Fort Worth Symphony to the DSO.

In this case, one would need a piece performed by these orchestras, yes? Like you, I suspect, I have multiple copies of various classical pieces by multiple conductors and orchestras. Some vary significantly in sound, not just recording technique. What to do in theses cases?

What affronted me originally is the notion that I somehow did not understand what I was hearing. That may not have been (now I don't think it was) your intention, but that's what I got. Probably should have stated that up front and I suspect we would have been on common ground.

Personally, I did not see this as bickering but more as two distinct viewpoints trying to be clear to each other.

[hthale]

Absolutely beautiful cabinets! I would like to have those in my house even if they sounded terrible. Just wondered where you got your walnut and veneer.
Congrats on a job well done!!