open baffle causes jaws to drop

[GKF]

i was bored one day and whipped up these , made with dayton 61/2" woofer and 4 dayton planer tweeters coupled with a powered sub dayton quattro 8" and 100w plate amp.
unbelievable output. the most open detailed midrange i have ever heard.but by themselves have little to no bass but with a small powered sub the result causes jaws to drop when others are here to listen .
i power these with recently completed rod elliot p101 built in two mono chassis

[Wolf]

Those look like the original PT2-a or YAG-20, so sadly this is not repeatable.

Looks good!
Wolf

[GKF]

thanks these are in now way meant to finished . just a thrown together to see how it works. those tweeters are i think maybe 10 years old or more. had a wack of these in line array.
still work fantastic. the one thing i notice is these need to be out from back wall about 2 to 4 feet.
at that range the midrange is breath taking. i was really shocked at just how good these are.
and thats with old stuff imagine with new high end drivers whooo.

[jonasz]

open baffle causes jaws to drop

That's what dipoles do to you, just wait until you hear proper dipole bass!

[Fusion916]

How does open baffle change the characteristics of midrange?

[GKF]

well in my 30 years of building speakers, and after 178 pairs built for friends and personal use, with sealed and ported 2 ways and cost no object line arrays, nothing in between these has sounded as clean boxless and open as if vocals are performed in the room in front of you.
live recordings are just that live.
but keep in mind these seem to be directly connected to placement. i'm old school and calculate with math and not software programs i have no way to test like most now do. i would however love to learn to be able to use computer design programs.

i recently built a 3 way with 4 dayton 6 1/2 160-8's a dayton rs52an mid and a morel mdt37. i have been putting all my time and money into these.
they are now in my storage room while i play with these open baffle's. i started this just for fun with no real goal for quality at all. baffle is 20" wide and 48" high with the woofer stepped out in front on another 3/4" bit of mdf for time alinement.
right from the get go i was completely stunned.

you need to try this for yourselves. try any woofer and tweeter you have lying around.
next i have in tl boxes 2 jordan jx92 drivers and these are going in a open baffle as well .
and maybe even a mini line array of full range drivers . oh great another speaker build, i can here my wife now. ha ha
in case any of you would like to see what i use check it out

this ia a counterpoint pre amp very modded and a dac i built just below it

this is a denon dvd3800 cd/dvd player and a phono pre pre amp i built with remote power supply. it has the power switch. above this is a heybrook tt2 table with rega rb300 rewired arm and ortafon mc10 low voltage mc cartridge


and the amps

[saabracer23]

What type of crossover you using? Complicated or are woofers fully open with a cap and resistor on the tweeter?

Dan

[spasticteapot]

Maybe it was in too small a room, but the NaO clones I heard were not hugely impressive. It was similar to placing standard 2-way bookshelf on the floor.

I'm curious if the benefit is from the figure-of-8 dispersion pattern of the midrange or the lack of internal reflections. The latter can be solved mechanically; the former, not so much.

[GKF]

sorry i should have mentioned that second order on the woofer at 2600 with a zorbel
high pass is 3rd order at 2600

[JasonP]

Welcome to the club man!

[RINNAV]

Are those CSS 125s as your center? If so, are they also open baffle?

[natediggidy]

i was bored one day and whipped up these , made with dayton 61/2" woofer and 4 dayton planer tweeters coupled with a powered sub dayton quattro 8" and 100w plate amp.
unbelievable output. the most open detailed midrange i have ever heard.but by themselves have little to no bass but with a small powered sub the result causes jaws to drop when others are here to listen .
i power these with recently completed rod elliot p101 built in two mono chassis

Just an idea. How about two tweeters rear firing & two tweeters front firing?

[GKF]

Are those CSS 125s as your center? If so, are they also open baffle?

hey man great eye. yes they are early fr125's i had 12 of these at first but ended up selling 10 of them when bob at css cut them from production.
they are stellar little drivers.


natediggidy thank you
no that didn't cross my mind but tell you what tomorrow morning the mdf dust will fly brother.
great idea

[GKF]

guys
why do some open baffle have woofers pointed one front and one backwards?
i'm trying to find out what the the number one open baffle or dipole would be

[6thplanet]

It's to cancel out any motor/suspention noise. They both move in the same direction but one cone is moving out of its frame and the other is moving into its frame. Also "acoustically" balances a dual woofer formate.

[natehansen66]

What 6th said, and it reduces distortion AFAIK.

i'm trying to find out what the the number one open baffle or dipole would be

The best dipole is open to interpretation like anything else

IMO the greatest benefit of a dipole speaker is the narrow constant directivity of a narrow/no baffle dipole. It doesn't eliminate the room but greatly reduces its impact if they can be placed properly.

I'd also suggest a dipole tweeter, like a Neo3 that's used in the NaO Note. It'll match the directivity of your mid much better. I can't help but think the line source of tweeters and the single mid isn't doing you any favors.

[AnthonyC]

I fell in love with dipoles after seeing Magnepan speakers demo'd. I have a pair of MG10.1's with a home built dipole subwoofer and the sound is phenomenal. I tried for a while to make dipole mains for a home theater system, but could never get the recipe right. It's a tough balancing act between size, LF output, and efficiencies.

The Neo3 is a fantastic dipole tweeter but can be a pain to design a crossover for. It has a humped + rising response. However it just sounds so open and natural.

It's so jaw dropping because people just don't realize how much the box and room color the sound (and a good dipole can get rid of both if placed right).

[GKF]

It's to cancel out any motor/suspention noise. They both move in the same direction but one cone is moving out of its frame and the other is moving into its frame. Also "acoustically" balances a dual woofer formate.

man i love in your link, what you have done with the bg ribbon. awesome build

What 6th said, and it reduces distortion AFAIK.



The best dipole is open to interpretation like anything else

IMO the greatest benefit of a dipole speaker is the narrow constant directivity of a narrow/no baffle dipole. It doesn't eliminate the room but greatly reduces its impact if they can be placed properly.

I'd also suggest a dipole tweeter, like a Neo3 that's used in the NaO Note. It'll match the directivity of your mid much better. I can't help but think the line source of tweeters and the single mid isn't doing you any favors.

I fell in love with dipoles after seeing Magnepan speakers demo'd. I have a pair of MG10.1's with a home built dipole subwoofer and the sound is phenomenal. I tried for a while to make dipole mains for a home theater system, but could never get the recipe right. It's a tough balancing act between size, LF output, and efficiencies.

The Neo3 is a fantastic dipole tweeter but can be a pain to design a crossover for. It has a humped + rising response. However it just sounds so open and natural.

It's so jaw dropping because people just don't realize how much the box and room color the sound (and a good dipole can get rid of both if placed right).

thanks guys
so i take that means out of phase right? also the pic of the line of planar tweets and 1 6 1/2 was just a test and enough to get me hooked.
so for example the pic i posted of the 3 ways, if these are to be dipole i would need a tweeter, mid and woofers on the back firing out of phase . is this right?

[natehansen66]

Well......cone drivers on a baffle will give you the rear radiation. If you used dome tweeters or your Dayton planars you would need one on the back wired out of phase. To me that isn't a good solution. A Neo3 can be made dipole so you only need one, or you could use a more expensive Beyma or Mundorf AMT.

[GKF]

Well......cone drivers on a baffle will give you the rear radiation. If you used dome tweeters or your Dayton planars you would need one on the back wired out of phase. To me that isn't a good solution. A Neo3 can be made dipole so you only need one, or you could use a more expensive Beyma or Mundorf AMT.

thank you
i'm still confused , is all thats needed on the back is a tweeter?what about the midrange?