Thoughts about a DIY studio monitor

[dmlandrum]

I've been finding myself less and less happy with my otherwise serviceable Wharfedale 8.2a studio monitors, and I've been giving some thought to building my own replacement. Here's where I'm coming from:

1) I'm having troubles mixing the midrange. I've also learned that this really is the most important part to get right.
2) I also have trouble in the lows, but not as much. A quick listen on any other system helps me here. Still, if I can make improvements here, I should.
3) Highs are the most easily correctable range. I seem to have the least trouble here.

To that end, I'm thinking:

1) The Dayton RS100-4 or -8 full-range driver is looking pretty good to me. This is a very well-received unit that looks like it would cover the mids very well and the highs well enough. Correction in the highs could be made in the crossover, or even digitally at the output of the DAW. (I would probably buy a measurement mic to test such things.)
2) Combine that with a good woofer or subwoofer to fill in the lows. Something that gives excellent transient response. Again, frequency response can be corrected many different ways.
3) The distortion figures have to be best in the midrange. The lows and highs can slip a bit, though not too much, obviously. Even with the worst speakers, though, it's not tough to tell what sounds in a mix are supposed to sound distorted and which are not.
4) My mind immediately wants to go to a sealed cabinet, as I remember reading that those were easiest to design for good transient response. However, the RS100-* seems to like a ported cabinet... ? It's been a while since I read up on the intricacies of speaker design.

Basically, the goal is to get as good of a midrange as possible, and the lows and highs can be corrected for, possibly even digitally. I know a lot of people will be railing against this idea for studio monitors, but I also remember a lot of people railing against digital room correction, which turned out to work just fine in many instances.

I also don't have an ideal studio. I have a treated area, but it's a smaller area inside a larger room, with a wall closer to one side of my monitors than the other. Here's a pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmlandr...57624352963685

This turned out to be longer than I thought. Thank you for your time.

[mdocod]

Hello,

I think you should first do the following:

1. Raise the speakers up higher, so that the woofer is at ear level rather than the tweeter, or something close to that, and see if it helps.
2. Get that computer tower the heck away from the side of the right speaker.
3. Get that synth off of the top of the left speaker.

Those "objects" around the speakers, are dramatically changing the effective baffle, which is a great way to make studio monitors that would be otherwise flat, sound like trash.

Regards,
Eric

[dmlandrum]

The synth is removed from the left speaker, and the speakers have in fact been raised, though not quite that high. This is an old picture intended only to give you a feeling for the room itself. The workspace is not arranged like this anymore. Except for the computer to the right. Unfortunately, solving that will be more difficult than you might think. But I still don't see how that's going to magically solve everything.

Although, come to think of it, it would be nice to have the speakers spread out across the width of the whole desk. I'll see what I can do to rearrange for that, but I still think I'm going to run into a PITA cabling issue (I have a bunch of cables that are just a bit too short for the arrangement you suggest).

[WernerM]

The synth is removed from the left speaker, and the speakers have in fact been raised, though not quite that high. This is an old picture intended only to give you a feeling for the room itself. The workspace is not arranged like this anymore. Except for the computer to the right. Unfortunately, solving that will be more difficult than you might think. But I still don't see how that's going to magically solve everything.

Although, come to think of it, it would be nice to have the speakers spread out across the width of the whole desk. I'll see what I can do to rearrange for that, but I still think I'm going to run into a PITA cabling issue (I have a bunch of cables that are just a bit too short for the arrangement you suggest).

The reason mdocod recommended removing the monitor from between the speakers, is because you have effectively widened the baffles of the speakers to include your monitor. It is a nice flat surface, and when speakers are that close to it, the sound waves continue to travel along it, which they weren't designed to do. I would suggest maybe trying to mount them on stands, and space them on each side of the desk with nothing extending the baffles, then angle them slightly until you have the right axis angle for critical listening.

[dmlandrum]

Okay, I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the help.

Just for the fun of it, though, maybe we can get back to my original monitor idea... ?

[WernerM]

That I can't really help with, but if you get the monitors you have now placed well, you may be surprised. Not saying you will, but you might.

[dmlandrum]

Okay, now that you have me thinking about it, I'll give all that a try first. I still like my monitor design idea, though.

[WernerM]

Okay, now that you have me thinking about it, I'll give all that a try first. I still like my monitor design idea, though.

By all means, do what you feel you want to do, I am not saying don't, just that if you do those things discussed, and find the best placement of monitors for your room, then you will have a reference to compare to during your build should you go that route. So at the very least you will learn your studio.

[mdocod]

If I understand the proposal, you want to use an extended range driver, like the RS100, for all midrange and high frequency duty, crossed to a sub for the bottom end.

If this is true, keep in mind that you would be FORCED to change your speaker positions anyways. A full range driver pretty much has to be used on-axis, so you would need them to be at ear level, toed in at your head. A multi-way design, can actually be designed for an intended off-axis listening position quite well. I'd say don't discount the tweeter, but be ready for an uphill battle with crossover design.

Regards,
Eric

[WernerM]

IMHO if you do decide to go with another design, I would go 3-way. I say this, because IMHO you lack the midrange freq's in a 2-way that a 3-way has. Well, maybe not lack, but they aren't as present in a 2-way. This may indeed be what you are fighting currently anyway.

[spasticteapot]

Look for a DIY design with really flat frequency response and close driver spacing. Several of Zaph's designs qualify, as do the Modula MTs and a few others.

Also, get those monitors off the table, away from walls and gear, and on stands. The most relevant reflective surface is the one the monitor is presently sitting on.

[NickJ]

Yeah, speaker stands might be a good way to solve the congestion on that desk. Lower and mid rang frequencies bouncing off your desk will also create some muddiness.

I can see, however, you also WANT to build monitors. That is cool, and if you have the budget and time it would be a fun project. I have been thinking that the KEF coaxial drivers recently reviewed by Zaph, would make the basis for a phenomenal monitor. Coaxial drivers are great in the nearfield because you don't have to worry about summation issues between the two drivers (assuming you get the crossover right). If I were going to build a pair of monitors I might start there personally, but doing the crossover will require some work.

If I only had a couple hundred dollars to spend though, my first purchase would be a good pair of mixing headphones (I usually recommend AKG q(k)701s, or AT m50s). I noticed that you don't have a good pair of cans in the picture you posted, and if you are having trouble with any frequency, those headphones would be the most economical way to get the clarity of sound you are looking for.

[kmibb]

I wouldn't go 3-way. I'd go with a 7-8" woofer and beefy tweeter 2-way.

Pete's Aurora with the Vifa 8" and Mark K's RS225 would be better. You'd get good midrange, great bass extension, and good top-end. A 3-way monitor with an 8" woofer would be huge, expensive, and have a complex crossover. There are 8" woofers with great midrange and tweeters that can cross low enough to be considered mids.

I say this because I'd rather have a 2-way with good drivers than a budget 3-way. Downside to a 2-way this style is power handling, but that doesn't seem like much of an issue for a studio monitor.

[dmlandrum]

Thanks for the input, all. I was trying to think a bit outside the box (so to speak) with a design, as it seems like the old stand-by 2-way has been done to death, though I suppose the reason it sticks around is because it works.

First, though, I think I'll follow the earlier advice and do some re-arranging and make a set of speaker stands.

[Paul Carmody]

If you're going to run a single RS100 without a tweeter, then you're basically in Auratone territory. Not that there's anything wrong with that--lots of guys swear by them.

[Taterworks]

If you're going to run a single RS100 without a tweeter, then you're basically in Auratone territory. Not that there's anything wrong with that--lots of guys swear by them.

...as "grot boxes" that are used for determining how a mix is likely to sound on a compromised consumer-electronics-grade speaker system. Not as reference monitors. I've managed to get excellent sound out of a pair of full-range drivers of a far higher caliber than the ones in the Auratone, but they still don't rise to the same neutrality and resolution that you can achieve with a cost-effective two-way configuration.

The difficulty here seems to be finding a speaker design that is actually voiced for monitoring work, which requires neutrality and very low distortion. The Dayton Reference Series drivers seem up to the task, but most DIYers are designing speakers for their own pleasure and not necessarily for the most uncompromising maximally-flat response. Tweeters and baffle step compensation in DIY projects are usually voiced by ear, when a reference monitor should be voiced for perfect flatness by measurements instead.

[jeff_free69]

I have been thinking that the KEF coaxial drivers recently reviewed by Zaph, would make the basis for a phenomenal monitor. Coaxial drivers are great in the nearfield because you don't have to worry about summation issues between the two drivers (assuming you get the crossover right). If I were going to build a pair of monitors I might start there personally, but doing the crossover will require some work.

That's on my list too! Could be an outstanding nearfield solution. Its been stated that the crossover might be pretty simple (1st order). I'm hoping Zaph will followup with one.

But why replace the Wharf's? You should have at least 2 speakers for sanity checking on the mixes. The Overnight Sensations can easily fit on your desk (put them on stands to raise it to face level).
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-706

I just built a pair and they are very well balanced. If they were your only speakers they would need a sub.

For my studio I have the Zaph SR-71 as the mains. However they are several feet away. In your setup, the speakers are literally in your face and the OS with its small, closely-spaced drivers are perect for that. Currently I have them on my office desk and use them to audition test mixes before sending out.

[dmlandrum]

Does anyone have a link to these KEF drivers on Zaph's site? I can't find anything. A Google search on "KEF coaxial driver" returns a bunch of stuff about an older no-longer-available product.

I remember coming across these some time ago:

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=...119&Itemid=141

They look like they have potential, though they are quite pricey at ~$180 apiece.

I'll take a closer look at the Overnight Sensations as well.

To be honest, new monitors and some other new gear builds will be waiting until the next album project. As for now, Project Rearrange-the-Basement will be full-steam-ahead this weekend.

[jeff_free69]

This says $112 ea for "brand new , genuine" even though they seem to be reconers
http://reconingspeakers.com/products...entric-driver/


complete system from KEF for 550 /pair
http://www.kefdirect.com/q100-booksh...udspeaker.html

[spasticteapot]

This says $112 ea for "brand new , genuine" even though they seem to be reconers
http://reconingspeakers.com/products...entric-driver/

They sell replacement parts as a distributor for multiple manufacturers.