Has anyone built the Top Hats featured in the latest PE flyer?

[901Fixer]

Designed and built by Mike Van Den Broek using the RS100-4? My search here or Bing got me one thing, his build over in the Project Showcase section.

I need some new desk/computer speakers and these look nifty. I just wanted to hear from the finicky Audio Guru's before making a decision.

[Wolf]

Designed and built by Mike Van Den Broek using the RS100-4? My search here or Bing got me one thing, his build over in the Project Showcase section.

I need some new desk/computer speakers and these look nifty. I just wanted to hear from the finicky Audio Guru's before making a decision.

They were just released in the latest sales flyer, so it's too new for anyone to have replicated them methinks.
Wolf

[901Fixer]

They were just released in the latest sales flyer, so it's too new for anyone to have replicated them methinks.
Wolf

Too new? You must be mistaken, I've had this flyer at least a week and it's been pretty hot out lately so surely at least 5 members here have made, measured and critiqued them, what else have they had to do, certainly no outside activities to distract them.
Okay, okay, I'll give it another week.

Is anyone planning to build these yet? What are some thoughts on the design?

I've seen discussed in the past possible issues with a phase plug facing upwards and dust getting in the gap between it and the cone/coil etc. yet this isn't the first upward firing design I've encountered.

[Wolf]

I've seen discussed in the past possible issues with a phase plug facing upwards and dust getting in the gap between it and the cone/coil etc. yet this isn't the first upward firing design I've encountered.

That is always a cause for concern. A bit of legging hose around the supports would prevent that.
Later,
Wolf

[jonpike]

Designed and built by Mike Van Den Broek using the RS100-4? My search here or Bing got me one thing, his build over in the Project Showcase section.

I need some new desk/computer speakers and these look nifty. I just wanted to hear from the finicky Audio Guru's before making a decision.

Not exactly, though I was screwing around with an off the wall Omni idea several months back...


And, since it's not a completed project without the "sox shot"...


Pair of RS100S-8's laying on coffee cups, cut gaskets of 1/16" craft foam, just enough Dacron to stuff the coffee cups without touching the cone... Maybe 15min of work over an hour or two...

Really though, there was some Omni goodness going on, but A. They needed some tweeter, (or something to replace the lack of any kind of crossover network!) ...the high end rolled off pretty fast. And B. the Top Hat layout with the upfiring and diffusor should be a better way to go about an omni, better freq diffusion. You have taller "cabs" too, with more volume to have lower bass. 3" ABS pipe makes a fair size match. Though, on a tabletop, I was hearing a surprisingly low response from the coffee cup volume. Played briefly with some ND20's sitting on the top of the RS100's with active crossovers and a taller pipe "cab", but never finished it...

There's something about the sound of an omni... and it seems to be especially nice in a near field computer speaker situation.

[djg]

I built a pair of coaxial omnis, 8" dia woofer and sonotube body. Knocked out the phase plug and added a tweeter in a horn. Very nice surrounds for my 5.1 system.

[901Fixer]

One of the aspects I enjoy about a fullrange is the lack of crossovers, maybe just a cap sometimes. The crossover Mike came up with is 6 parts so not simple nor real complex.

I have a pair of TB W4-1320 and two pair of TB W4-1337SD, I suppose the Top Hat enclosure could be built to easily swap out the vast plethora of 4" Fullrangers available these days. Mike picked the RS100-4 but I wonder what else would work well in the same enclosure maybe adjust the port if necessary. Volume could be manipulated easily enough as well.

I don't recall seeing this kinda design showcased on PE before, is there any other DIY project this style and size y'all know of?

[901Fixer]

OY! 462 views and only 6 responses? Really? Is this a new record? I think I may go ahead and build these to try my TB's first then maybe get the RS100's. Maybe add a tweeter to the back firing at the wall.....

[WernerM]

OY! 462 views and only 6 responses? Really? Is this a new record? I think I may go ahead and build these to try my TB's first then maybe get the RS100's. Maybe add a tweeter to the back firing at the wall.....

LOL... Don't feel bad, not enough time for someone to have built them and critique. My thread has 17000 views and only 410 replies, LOL... These do look interesting though, especially for desktop omni speakers.

[monoiz15]

They look fun to build for a friend but I have way too many projects and not enough money to do that right now :/

[kenrhodes]

I really liked the design...but it seems that the price climbed a bit higher than it needed too. with as many great full rangers out there is this really the best woofer for this design. I also wonder if their was a better way to make the diffuser? Might be time to fire up the lathe and whip out a few.

I wonder what would happen if they used the nuance tweeter and the tangband buyout and a simple crossover I think you could add a tweeter and still cost less than half. I also wonder what would happen if someone were to try this with wolfs computer speakers for something really simple.

comments please I am a newb with a flame resistant suit.

[DaveE]

I'm thinking about trying a version of the Top Hats but stuff them inside of these for my brother in law who is a Heineken fan.
He has a pool table in his garage and some other Heineken stuff in there so...
I had been thinking about this for awhile in a more conventional form then I saw this build.
I know it's just thin aluminum so the plan is to put pvc or sonotube inside and fill the gap with foam.

[901Fixer]

I really liked the design...but it seems that the price climbed a bit higher than it needed too. with as many great full rangers out there is this really the best woofer for this design. I also wonder if their was a better way to make the diffuser? Might be time to fire up the lathe and whip out a few.

I wonder what would happen if they used the nuance tweeter and the tangband buyout and a simple crossover I think you could add a tweeter and still cost less than half. I also wonder what would happen if someone were to try this with wolfs computer speakers for something really simple.

comments please I am a newb with a flame resistant suit.

I had many of these same thoughts.

The 4" PVC is better suited to smaller ~3" drivers since most will need around .08cuft/2liters, which would make it around 12" tall. Most ~4" want in the .25cuft/7liters range which gets you up to around 36".

I thought about using a tweeter facing down towards a cone that is mounted on top of the same panel the mid/woofer cone is mounted to. Both drivers on the same axis aimed towards the same plane of separation.

I found another thread somewhere discussing diffuser cones and the consensus was that a 90 degree cone with a base (top in this application) the same diameter as the driver it is over would be optimal. The flat top piece should not be located over the driver, only outside it's diameter. This makes complete sense from a reflection sense, you want it to reflect out, not down.

I recently procured some 4" PVC and an 8" concrete form tube. I should probably clean off my desk so I can put them on here when finished.

Do you have an online order form for the cones you make on the lathe? I'll need 6 to start with, various diameters....... What material do you start with? A 4 x 4 would be the right size but they are almost always pressure treated.

I'm thinking about trying a version of the Top Hats but stuff them inside of these for my brother in law who is a Heineken fan.
He has a pool table in his garage and some other Heineken stuff in there so...
I had been thinking about this for awhile in a more conventional form then I saw this build.
I know it's just thin aluminum so the plan is to put pvc or sonotube inside and fill the gap with foam.

I love when folks use a discarded item to house anything. I thought of ways to paint or otherwise decorate my finished tubes. Discarded weapon case, fuel cell like out of 5th element, fire extinguisher, scuba tank.....something strange.

[dlneubec]

I can't follow what you are describing for the diiffuser, but in my experience, and I've measured quite a number of diffuser shapes when I was doing my waveguide omni project, the concave cone shape is by far the best shape. I thought that was what was used in the tophat, but my recollection could be faulty.

[901Fixer]

I can't follow what you are describing for the diiffuser, but in my experience, and I've measured quite a number of diffuser shapes when I was doing my waveguide omni project, the concave cone shape is by far the best shape. I thought that was what was used in the tophat, but my recollection could be faulty.

The TopHats do use the concave shape at the top where it blends into the top panel with a large floor spike underneath for the point. The other thread I was reading suggested that the concave shape would reflect some of the sound down in a TopHat type configuration and if the diffuser is at ear level on a desk top this isn't desirable.
I've seen your omni project mentioned and I'd love to see a build thread or other info, might you have a link or keyword to search for?

[dlneubec]

I don't recall what or if I published the results. I justlooked at the top hats and I would agree that you would not want it to becomeflat on top as they do. My experience is that a concave cone shape, like usedon the Duevel speakers, for example, is the ideal diffuser shape. I don't knowif I can find any measurements, but I'll look...............

Here is one of the RS52 in an 8" PE waveguide firing up into a concavecone diffuser (blue), inside of which is a Dayton ND20 inside a 6" MCMwaveguide firing up into a second concave cone diffuser (black). I also did raw measurements of the ND20 and RS28AS without a wavguide mounting and just a diffuser above. In every case the concave cone diffuser produced more extended, flatter response than every other shape i tried, which included all types of round *****, bowl shapes, flat cone shapes, egg shapes, etc. etc.



This was an early raw measurement set from this prototype speaker.

[901Fixer]

Wow! Took me awhile to take it all in. Sound fountain.

How/Where did you obtain the diffuser cones? I found one place in Germany but they were rather costly.

I have access to several different lathes for metal work but I don't think the various owners would approve of me turning wood on them. Maybe Home Depot or Lowes carries fence post tops in a shape that will work.

[dlneubec]

The bottom one was done to a rough stepped shape with a crude CNC machine and then sanded. The top one was a series of round pieces that were from driver cutouts glued together, 45's cut all around at close increments on a table saw to ge the basice cone shape and then sanded on a upright belt sander by hand to sculp the shape. Having them turned on a lathe or on a good cnc machine would be a good way to go, I would think.

[piazzafatb]

What about Bang & Olufsen Beolab diffuser Style?

[robertf]

I am building the Top Hats now. Nice little project that is different. Building them just to see how they sound. Let you know when I am done.

Robert