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  1. #1
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    Default AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Here are photos of the AMT3-4 and AMTPro-4 tweeters with their faceplates off:

    Flickr photo gallery

    Click image for larger version. 

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    More to come...

    VERY strong magnets of course, and on the AMT4-Pro they are exposed - I experienced the clamping onto my AMT3-4 accidently, had to pull pretty hard to separate them.

    More measurements going here (can only attach up to five per post)

    AMT3-4, unprotected, no faceplate, no baffle (on top of .5 cu ft speaker, 1 inch back from edge, mic centered on tweeter .5 meters away) FR + Distortions:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by critofur; 09-22-2013 at 08:29 PM.
    If it's a "stand mount" or "bookshelf" speaker, it's simply not a "no compromise" speaker.

  2. #2
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    Default Measurement Post - updated again

    AMTPro-4 (RED) and AMT3-4 (GREEN), unprotected, no faceplate, no baffle (on top of .5 cu ft speaker, 1 inch back from edge, mic centered on tweeter .5 meters away) FR:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    AMTPro-4, unprotected, no faceplate, no baffle (on top of .5 cu ft speaker, 1 inch back from edge, mic centered on tweeter .5 meters away) FR + Distortions:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    AMTPro-4(Red) and AMT3-4(Blue) + Distortions w/10uf in series:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    AMTPro-4 FR + Distortions w/10uf in series:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    ----------- All measurements above this line without faceplates on the tweeters ------------

    Measurement:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    AMTPro-4 = Blue AMT3-4 = Green

    Notes:

    The faceplate on the Pro-4 is slightly thinner than the 3-4 and, so far, with all the units I've seen they come with a slight bend which I will try to carefully undo, though I'm sure if you order some and get them that way PE will gladly exchange them for you for un-bent ones.

    The 3-4 faceplates do not seem to have the same problem (did not arrive bent).

    As you can see in the photos, the Pro-4 comes with two pieces of felt stuck in the rear cavity. These are held in merely by friction (tight fit) and come out easily. Also as you can see in the photo the front comes covered with a thin nylon screen - this is not shown in Parts Express photos on their page for this tweeter.
    Last edited by critofur; 09-22-2013 at 08:23 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    These are the Dayton units?
    Dan N.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by critofur View Post
    Here are photos of the AMT3-4 and AMTPro-4 tweeters with their faceplates off:

    Flickr photo gallery

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AMT photos 1.jpg 
Views:	791 
Size:	69.6 KB 
ID:	39984Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AMT photos 2.jpg 
Views:	793 
Size:	75.7 KB 
ID:	39985

    More to come...

    VERY strong magnets of course, and on the AMT4-Pro they are exposed - I experienced the clamping onto my AMT3-4 accidently, had to pull pretty hard to separate them.
    Very,
    very interested in these units. Hope you can provide measurements

  5. #5
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by dlneubec View Post
    These are the Dayton units?
    That's correct. Dayton AMT3-4 and AMTPro-4

    Quote Originally Posted by Squidspeak View Post
    Very,
    very interested in these units. Hope you can provide measurements
    Yes, I will definitely do at least some type of measurements on each of these units. As to whether or not I will get them in a BAFFLE, I'm not sure yet...

    So, who knows how large of a "safety" capacitor I can can get away with, assuming I need one to measure at reasonable levels?
    If it's a "stand mount" or "bookshelf" speaker, it's simply not a "no compromise" speaker.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Thanks! I've been looking at those units. Looking forward to FR and distortion.

    I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
    "We're down to our last 5 pairs of speakers!" Ms. Ken Lay
    "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

    NS6-255/Vifa BC25SC06 TM design - AURBACS
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by donradick View Post
    Thanks! I've been looking at those units. Looking forward to FR and distortion.
    I hope these measure well. I have refrained from posting on AMT's so far, but I will say a couple of things here. I have been sent three different samples of AMT drivers to test for the purpose of designing some speakers with them. Unfortunatley, none of them measured well enough to inspire me to really move forward much on it. I was disappointed with the really peaky top octave of a couple of models, but the distortion was especially troubling. This led me to wonder why these were showing up in so many commercial speaker designs these days. I think I have a couple samples coming from a different manufacturer and I am hoping they look better. I am interested to see what these look like when Chris measures them too. I did find one model that I could work well with and designed a two way using it that has very flat response, we'll see how all of that turns out.

    Jeff

  8. #8
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff B. View Post
    I hope these measure well. I have refrained from posting on AMT's so far, but I will say a couple of things here. I have been sent three different samples of AMT drivers to test for the purpose of designing some speakers with them. Unfortunatley, none of them measured well enough to inspire me to really move forward much on it. I was disappointed with the really peaky top octave of a couple of models, but the distortion was especially troubling. This led me to wonder why these were showing up in so many commercial speaker designs these days. I think I have a couple samples coming from a different manufacturer and I am hoping they look better. I am interested to see what these look like when Chris measures them too. I did find one model that I could work well with and designed a two way using it that has very flat response, we'll see how all of that turns out.

    Jeff
    I had planned on using The Airborne RT4001 in a 3-way but after Roman
    measured them for me (4units) I am looking for a replacement and really hoping Chris
    has some good things to show from the AMT3-4 it should be able to cross easier than
    the Airbornes to my mid (Hi-Vi M5a)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff B. View Post
    I hope these measure well. I have refrained from posting on AMT's so far, but I will say a couple of things here. I have been sent three different samples of AMT drivers to test for the purpose of designing some speakers with them. Unfortunatley, none of them measured well enough to inspire me to really move forward much on it. I was disappointed with the really peaky top octave of a couple of models, but the distortion was especially troubling. This led me to wonder why these were showing up in so many commercial speaker designs these days. I think I have a couple samples coming from a different manufacturer and I am hoping they look better. I am interested to see what these look like when Chris measures them too. I did find one model that I could work well with and designed a two way using it that has very flat response, we'll see how all of that turns out.

    Jeff
    That's what I was concerned about. From a marketing perspective, it's very rare to perform like the high priced units and
    price at 50% less. We'll see what Chris meaures.

    I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
    "We're down to our last 5 pairs of speakers!" Ms. Ken Lay
    "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

    NS6-255/Vifa BC25SC06 TM design - AURBACS
    NS6-255/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM design - MAURBACS
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  10. #10

    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff B. View Post
    I hope these measure well. I have refrained from posting on AMT's so far, but I will say a couple of things here. I have been sent three different samples of AMT drivers to test for the purpose of designing some speakers with them. Unfortunatley, none of them measured well enough to inspire me to really move forward much on it. I was disappointed with the really peaky top octave of a couple of models, but the distortion was especially troubling. This led me to wonder why these were showing up in so many commercial speaker designs these days. I think I have a couple samples coming from a different manufacturer and I am hoping they look better. I am interested to see what these look like when Chris measures them too. I did find one model that I could work well with and designed a two way using it that has very flat response, we'll see how all of that turns out.

    Jeff
    This is pretty much the opposite of what you posted here.
    I have used the Airborne RT4001 myself and I think it is a super nice tweeter.
    Or maybe you are refering to the new Dayton's specifically(?).

  11. #11

    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    If you would, run a tone sweep with a spectrum analyzer & look for sub-harmonics. The plain kapton diaphragm I measured was a great sub-harmonic generator! (AC diaphragms are coated with a slightly sticky substance and didn't exhibit the problem.)

  12. #12
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by Audiotorium View Post
    This is pretty much the opposite of what you posted here.
    I have used the Airborne RT4001 myself and I think it is a super nice tweeter.
    Or maybe you are refering to the new Dayton's specifically(?).
    There's been quite a bit posted in the two years since that thread. That's the problem with people going back and grabbing old posts and threads at times. Since then there was the thread where I received my second sample and it measured much more like Dennis' and Paul's samples, showing some concerning inconsistencies from driver to driver. This is the same thing that Roman posted on too. And although I posted that distortion was relatively decent, it is still nowhere near what we would expect from a good dome tweeter. Ultimately the RT4001 was the driver I ended up using in a design, and samples of other models were much less usable in my opinion. The thing now is that my name ends up on these designs. As a result I have become very picky about where my name ends up. I simply won't associate it with a speaker I feel is not a good reflection on me as a designer, so sometimes some drivers just get rejected as good design candidates. However, because people make a living selling these things I often refrain from saying negative things about drivers that I personally don't like out of respect for some people in the business. On the other hand I never mind promoting drivers that I believe are really excellent.

  13. #13

    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff B. View Post
    There's been quite a bit posted in the two years since that thread. That's the problem with people going back and grabbing old posts and threads at times. Since then there was the thread where I received my second sample and it measured much more like Dennis' and Paul's samples, showing some concerning inconsistencies from driver to driver. This is the same thing that Roman posted on too. And although I posted that distortion was relatively decent, it is still nowhere near what we would expect from a good dome tweeter. Ultimately the RT4001 was the driver I ended up using in a design, and samples of other models were much less usable in my opinion. The thing now is that my name ends up on these designs. As a result I have become very picky about where my name ends up. I simply won't associate it with a speaker I feel is not a good reflection on me as a designer, so sometimes some drivers just get rejected as good design candidates. However, because people make a living selling these things I often refrain from saying negative things about drivers that I personally don't like out of respect for some people in the business. On the other hand I never mind promoting drivers that I believe are really excellent.
    Understood (I didn't see your follow-up thread).
    I agree with you that when designing with very inconsistent drivers, it is better to not share/publish them and thus avoid a lot of frustration.
    Thanks for your input on this Jeff.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    I actually don't agree with not publishing data if the driver isn't performing well.
    There are reasons to be careful so one does not needlessly tarnish the reputation of driver manufacturer. Myself, I would always check every part of the system. If the measured data looks bad, I'd throw a known driver on the baffle to make sure there are no missed issues. Only then I'll post the data.
    Problem with not posting the info is this: Squid purchased 4 units of Airborn. He's out of $300 or so. Airborn declares frequency response that's entirely different from what it actually does. So, who's money is going to who's pocket for what reason? I picked up a pair of Visaton KE tweeters based on the manufacturer's description. Also out of $300 for the intended purpose. So, the list goes on and I am pretty sure other DIYers made same mistakes based on provided and inaccurate data. In case of Airborne the consistency of measured units appears to be an issue also, all tho the over all ragged and upped top octave looks similar on all independent tests.
    I think one of the advantages of our community is DIYers is sharing of information. No reason to hide potential problems with driver units.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    well said. Visaton can handle not getting 300.00 of some ones hard earned money better than you or I can handle giving it to them for some they misrepresented to start with. I do understand your view Jeff. another website published info and opinions on morel drivers. I have read and heard numerous people state that they would never buy morel products because of this, and morel makes some great drivers that sound very good, despite distortion numbers.
    craig kinnison

  16. #16
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by r-carpenter View Post
    I actually don't agree with not publishing data if the driver isn't performing well.
    There are reasons to be careful so one does not needlessly tarnish the reputation of driver manufacturer. Myself, I would always check every part of the system. If the measured data looks bad, I'd throw a known driver on the baffle to make sure there are no missed issues. Only then I'll post the data.
    Problem with not posting the info is this: Squid purchased 4 units of Airborn. He's out of $300 or so. Airborn declares frequency response that's entirely different from what it actually does. So, who's money is going to who's pocket for what reason? I picked up a pair of Visaton KE tweeters based on the manufacturer's description. Also out of $300 for the intended purpose. So, the list goes on and I am pretty sure other DIYers made same mistakes based on provided and inaccurate data. In case of Airborne the consistency of measured units appears to be an issue also, all tho the over all ragged and upped top octave looks similar on all independent tests.
    I think one of the advantages of our community is DIYers is sharing of information. No reason to hide potential problems with driver units.
    What you have said is valid, and for the most part I agree. Ethics are often a complex matter though. If a friend of mine is selling a driver and sends me a sample to check out and possibly design a kit for him and I find the driver to not make the grade I may choose to say nothing at all rather than to trash something sent by a friend to check out.

    I do not necessarily feel an obligation to share everything I know, especially if it is possible that I have very limited information to go by and may not have a balanced story at that time. I did, however, relay all of my findings to the person who sent the driver so they could decide to continue carrying it or not.

    I check out a lot of drivers, many of them I don't post anything at all on. I realized a long time ago that my endorsement makes a difference to people so I take that into consideration and think about the consequences before I say some things. I feel I have an ethical responsibility to the people who have asked for my opinion and not necessarily an obligation to make all matters public. I have noticed that Zaph has stated he does not post results on drivers that have poor performance now either, for vaiouse reasons, one of them being the influence he knows he has, and another reason being the fact that he now sells his own driver.

    Jeff

  17. #17

    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Jeff is right. If I take some measurements and post the data and complain about it, no would care. If he does it, he'd have to worry about getting sued.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by mintos View Post
    Jeff is right. If I take some measurements and post the data and complain about it, no would care. If he does it, he'd have to worry about getting sued.
    You cannot be successfully sued for posting objective date on objects. I would be very surprised if someone could be successfully sued for saying "this is a low value driver, with poor unit to unit consistency and I cannot recommend using it".

    I gotta side with Roman on this one - that Airborne tweeter nonsense (as a good example) should not be swept under the rug or otherwise toned down. That is big money for total crap QC. Let the manufacturers worry about staying in business - in the meantime, if it saves another DIY'er a couple hundred bucks... To whom do we owe our loyalty to?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyrichards View Post
    You cannot be successfully sued for posting objective date on objects. I would be very surprised if someone could be successfully sued for saying "this is a low value driver, with poor unit to unit consistency and I cannot recommend using it".

    I gotta side with Roman on this one - that Airborne tweeter nonsense (as a good example) should not be swept under the rug or otherwise toned down. That is big money for total crap QC. Let the manufacturers worry about staying in business - in the meantime, if it saves another DIY'er a couple hundred bucks... To whom do we owe our loyalty to?
    I'm not worried about being sued, and I'm not protecting manufacturers, and I'm not getting paid anything either; but I won't betray relationships where something is being discussed in confidence and then I post it in a public forum. That's wrong in my eyes and a line I won't cross unless I have discussed it with the other person first. There are a lot of things shared with me in confidence and I don't believe it is my place to post them all publically. I see things asked here often where I know the answer, but because of how I know the answer I don't post it, I may reply via email or PM, but even then I am carefull about what I share. I'll stand with my own convictions about this sort of thing. Trust is something that takes time to build but can be destroyed very quickly. I place high value on it.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: AMT tweeters - explored by Critofur

    This whole thread is a shitstorm and he hasn't even measured them yet...

    WTF?

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