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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    368

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff B. View Post
    The SDX12 is an underhung motor, dual gap XBL^2 design, so its BL curve is different from a typical overhung motor like the Ultimax. The rated Xmax of the SDX12 is +/- 28mm. It's hard to imagine someone would need more, but I have never heard this comment about only pushing them to 75% of this number, and frankly, I do not know if it applies to this driver, as it is different than early XBL versions.
    Jeff - yes, I was referring my earlier less than satisfying experiences with the original CSS XBL designs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff B. View Post
    Your recommendation of the Dayton DVC310-88 is a good one. I recommended it to my brother for his car due to the very well optimized T/S parameters. He later tried the UM12 in its place, and ultimately went back to the DVC because he liked it better in his car. It is a very good subwoofer for the money.
    Since the OP seems to have not even considered realistic and economical drivers that will do the job for him in that size room and his mind is set on spending money that he will never hear this seems to be more of an ego build...

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,152

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Quote Originally Posted by joeybutts View Post
    That bathroom is unnecessary.
    It was a decent trade - my wife got the bathroom, I got the HT room.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    3,567

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Quote Originally Posted by dwigle View Post
    It was a decent trade - my wife got the bathroom, I got the HT room.
    Touche! I completely agree.

    Just bustin *****. I wish I had that size bathroom.

    I don't think it is an ego build, more a different strokes for different folks.
    HT: Denon X4000, Emo XPA-3 and UPA-2, QSC CX902
    Khanspires, Dayton RS Center, MarkK's RS225/28As
    Two Elemental Designs 19O's in 2.25 cubes sealed
    Four Elemental Designs 13Av.2 in 2.0 cubes sealed
    1300lbs of audio gear.........

  4. #24

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Here is my reasoning.

    I have numerous differing sound quality in subs. I have a TSC-250 that I pulled the driver and lined the enclosure and the sound got fuller that I use for the extra TV with a ZVOX sound bar. I have a Occam Audio sub with the SDX-10 driver that has a much lower and better sound than the TSC-250 and they are exactly the same size. I have an SVS PC-12 plus that is a great output sub and sounds pretty good. Finally I have pair of Selah Audio RC4 that I ordered from Rick and picked up from him at the 2006 RMAF so it has the Scan Speak 23W subs instead of the peerless XXLS. I am completely spoiled with those subs. I did a direct comparison with them against the Occam Audio SDX-10 sub in my two channel system and the SDX 10 sounded deep but it did not blend in with thee speakers like the Scan speak. I really like the scan speaks and really wanted something comparable in my HT.

    I really wanted to get the new Scan Speak 32W when it came out. Now I finally decided that this would be a sub that would not be a realistic and economical driver for a quad setup in my HT room. I still really would like to get that setup but I don't think it is needed. Also I have B&W 601 mains, B&W 603 sides, B&W 601 rear, and a B&W center. I think I would have to upgrade the speakers to stay on quality with the subs if I got the Scan Speak and for HT I am happy with the B&W for HT.

    I think the Dayton is a nice economical speaker for what you get. I was thinking about TC sounds LMS-R quad setup. And again it seems that one might as well step up to 15 for the little extra money instead of the 12s. Overkill yes but the speakers will not be operating as hard so there will be less distortion. I also like the look of the Dayton Ultimax which I think is important. I also really like the look of the Sundown ZV4 and Sundown will build them custom so it would be optimized for HT, but I think this is not a realistic and economical driver for 4 of them in my room. In this quest for subs I went and watched some of the vides that people have of these in there cars and I never knew how much a car could flex with just pure SPL. If you have not watched some of these videos on you tube it is worth checking out.

    So that is my saga. I am trying to do something for me that is economical, hence the DIY route and not 4 SVS sealed. I want drivers that I like the way they look and they have good performance that has been vetted by people who know. And I like the idea of having big drivers like the 15 uncovered that I will be able to see in my front stage. With the video of the Ultimax and the screwdriver trick I think I can leave them uncovered with my kids. If I got something with a dustcap they might be pushed in very quickly. Luckily I decided against the UM18, too much time over at AVS with the crazy baseheads, and will be happy with the Dayton Ultimax in a 15 for aesthetics, quality, and output.

  5. #25

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Tremblay View Post
    The craziest I've done was JBL pro audio 18's in a home stereo before. I think they only had 7mm of xmax and it was down right ridiculous to put it lightly.

    With the 18" Ultimax's 22mm Xmax......it's safe to say that your quest for bass will be done.
    I use a single 18" JBL 2245 with a 500W plate amp in a rather large and open "great-room" layout and I don't think I have maxed it out (Telarc 1812 Overture recording excepted) despite sort-of trying to do so. I can't even comprehend what some of the some of the subwoofer builds over at AVS Forum are capable of. Of course overkill is a good way to ensure low distortion and more or less eliminate any concerns damaging a driver. Build it and enjoy!

  6. #26

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Well.. Whatever you decide to do let us know how it sounds. I'm going to doing a 15in build this summer. I haven't decided what driver to use ether. I would like to see how your build turns out.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    764

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Do you have a link to the "video of the Ultimax and the screwdriver trick"? Just curious.
    Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

  8. #28

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    If you've never heard a well-designed and balanced system with significant subwoofer "overkill" (potential but not abused) you'll not understand the reasoning for it... effortless spine-tingling sub-bass. Goosebumps...

  9. #29

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Seriously, my HT room is close in size ( 15x12x8 ) and I run a single RS390HF....more than one could actually hurt!

    But, if you need and multi-sub massage, I would suggest starting at two not four. Quality first, quantity later!

  10. #30

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Here is the video of the Ultimax overview with screwdriver action.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVQy...layer_embedded

    I currently have two subs in the room and there is good output and pretty flat frequency response.

    I could start with two on the front wall with the TV and Mains and put the SVS PC12 + on the back wall and see if can I integrate them. Just not sure how much luck I will have with a ported and dual sealed.

  11. #31

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Quote Originally Posted by SDLitz View Post
    Seriously, my HT room is close in size ( 15x12x8 ) and I run a single RS390HF....more than one could actually hurt!

    But, if you need and multi-sub massage, I would suggest starting at two not four. Quality first, quantity later!
    I actually just went this direction myself. I'm a firm believer in multiple drivers barely running than running a driver to its edge. It's more costly, in many cases, but that's just the way it is. That said, I followed the same logic here. I figure that a single UM-15 would suffice for typical listening but the notion above pushed me to buy a pair. I purchased the flat pack kit and have a good EQ to help fix modal issues that placement can't fix and also bring up the low end. I figure by then, if for some crazy reason I feel there's room left to be desired then I can then buy another set. As it stands, however, I don't expect that to be the case.

    So, yes, I agree with you. It's more economical to start with two and get them integrated well. If you need more, buy it. For me, spending that extra $550 for an additional set would be a financial investment I'd have to be certain was warranted.

    As with everything audio, YMMV.
    When you stop caring about being right, you might actually learn something.

    My test data site:
    http://medleysmusings.com/

  12. #32

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Quote Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
    I actually just went this direction myself. I'm a firm believer in multiple drivers barely running than running a driver to its edge. It's more costly, in many cases, but that's just the way it is. That said, I followed the same logic here. I figure that a single UM-15 would suffice for typical listening but the notion above pushed me to buy a pair. I purchased the flat pack kit and have a good EQ to help fix modal issues that placement can't fix and also bring up the low end. I figure by then, if for some crazy reason I feel there's room left to be desired then I can then buy another set. As it stands, however, I don't expect that to be the case.

    So, yes, I agree with you. It's more economical to start with two and get them integrated well. If you need more, buy it. For me, spending that extra $550 for an additional set would be a financial investment I'd have to be certain was warranted.

    As with everything audio, YMMV.

    This.

  13. #33

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    This is good article to read on the differences in 1, 2, or 4 subwoofers. It made me want to move up to 15s for the reason the article suggest, more slam which is always great for movie sonic booms.

    http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...ers-4-2-or-1-0

  14. #34

    Default Re: 4 Ultimax 15 or 4 SDX 12 sealed for small room

    Please allow this slight deviation from the topic...

    What is the volume displaced by the UM15-22 15 Ultimax driver
    in an enclosure?

    I tried posting this question on the product page using both Opera
    and IE web browsers to no avail.

    Thanks

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