Bass Cabinet

[Fat Al]

First, I should have posted this question on this forum.
I play a Schecter Stillito Extreme 4 bass guitar and need to build a bass cabinet. Currently, I have a Behringer Ultrabass BX3000t bass guitar amp. I am looking to build a bass cabinet with 2-12" bass speakers. The amp puts out 300 watts at 4 ohms. Any suggestions on speakers, sett up and cab size? Thoughts, comments, concerns??? Thank you in advance.

[STIchris722]

First, I should have posted this question on this forum.
I play a Schecter Stillito Extreme 4 bass guitar and need to build a bass cabinet. Currently, I have a Behringer Ultrabass BX3000t bass guitar amp. I am looking to build a bass cabinet with 2-12" bass speakers. The amp puts out 300 watts at 4 ohms. Any suggestions on speakers, sett up and cab size? Thoughts, comments, concerns??? Thank you in advance.

Welcome Fat Al !

I have modeled countless bass cab configurations (100's to be exact). Using the information you have given, I have a few questions (not knocks):
1. Why 2x12" cab config?
2. Why the amplifier of choice?
3. What size venues are you playing?
4. Are you thinking full range, 2 way, 3 way?
5. Ported or sealed?
6. Weight considerations
7. Lastly what is your budget?

Just to throw something at you really quick that I build for a blues bass player for around $300 in parts:
-I used an Eminence 3012HO Neo Driver. I chose this against the LF model for sensitivity and the style of playing he does. I didn't need to tune the box very low to get the results he was after
-I used an Eminence Bass Horn with Eminence 3500Hz crossover

It sounds good to me and he absolutely loves it. The unit weighs just over 30#. This is just to get you an idea on cost and options. Once you answer those questions I can better steer you where you want to go!

[STIchris722]

I have built a bass guitar cabinet with good results, but I was curious what makes a driver a 'bass guitar' driver? I look at the specs on what PE dictates a driver that is appropriate for bass guitar, but they look like garbage to me. I have found some solid PA drivers that I was wondering if they would be better candidates. I guess my main question is what T/S parameters are we talking about here?

[billfitzmaurice]

Look at a data sheet for the Eminence Delta Pro 12, it has pretty much quintessential electric bass specs. Electric bass and PA drivers tend to have more or less the same specs, but what makes an electric bass driver different is a rising response into the mids, as they tend to be crossed over at 2.5kHz or higher, if at all. I don't do that. If I use a HF element it's crossed over at 2kHz or lower, for better dispersion. Commercial electric bass cabs cross over higher because it's cheaper.

Interestingly Eminence markets the Delta Pro-12 as a 'Professional Series' driver, meaning it can be used for PA or electric bass. They also have drivers that they market as electric bass specific, but the only ones that are significantly different are the high Qes/low EBP models better suited for sealed cabs.

[STIchris722]

Look at a data sheet for the Eminence Delta Pro 12, it has pretty much quintessential electric bass specs. Electric bass and PA drivers tend to have more or less the same specs, but what makes an electric bass driver different is a rising response into the mids, as they tend to be crossed over at 2.5kHz or higher, if at all. I don't do that. If I use a HF element it's crossed over at 2kHz or lower, for better dispersion. Commercial electric bass cabs cross over higher because it's cheaper.

Interestingly Eminence markets the Delta Pro-12 as a 'Professional Series' driver, meaning it can be used for PA or electric bass. They also have drivers that they market as electric bass specific, but the only ones that are significantly different are the high Qes/low EBP models better suited for sealed cabs.

Thank you Bill. This was exactly what I was after. My David Eden D210XLT the is from the early 2000's (guessing) has wrinkles on the cone right by the surround and need replaced. I was trying to figure out what to use and oddly enough I was actually looking at the Delta Pro series! Thanks again.

[billfitzmaurice]

There's no Delta Pro 10. There used to be a Delta Pro 10 MR, which had decent enough specs but xmax was an unusable 1.3mm. My preference for a 210 would be Deltalite II 2510 or Basslite 2010.

[STIchris722]

There's no Delta Pro 10. There used to be a Delta Pro 10 MR, which had decent enough specs but xmax was an unusable 1.3mm. My preference for a 210 would be Deltalite II 2510 or Basslite 2010.

Ahhh I was thinking of the Kappa Pro. Oops! I actually have a pair of the deltalite 2510 sitting NIB. I should give those a go.

[billfitzmaurice]

The Kappa Pro 10 made its way into lots of bass cabs, because of the 500w thermal rating, but it never should have. Between the 0.2 Qes and 3.2mm xmax it's lousy for bass.

[STIchris722]

The Kappa Pro 10 made its way into lots of bass cabs, because of the 500w thermal rating, but it never should have. Between the 0.2 Qes and 3.2mm xmax it's lousy for bass.

Okay so you have mentioned Qes a few times. I referenced it in one of my books as the "electrical suspension system control". It tied all of the Q numbers into categories rating them for ported, sealed, and infinite baffle systems. Where I am confused is how does Qes translate quantitatively to what I am looking at. This is something that has always puzzled me about T/S parameters. I for the most part can make sense of the what the individual numbers mean, but don't know how to correlate them to selecting an appropriate driver for a specific application.

This is embarrassing to admit, but I typically look at: Qts, Sensitivity, Xmax, and RMS power handling. The rest of the numbers don't tell me anything due to my own ignorance.

Back to our topic though, I notice that a great majority of bass guitar speakers have high sensitivity and very low Xmax. It seems to me you would want a minor trade-off between the two: i.e. medium high sensitivity and moderate Xmax.For example how would something like the FaitalPRO 10FH530 do in my application?

[billfitzmaurice]

Qes simply put is magnet strength, although the lower the number the higher the strength. Lower Qes gives higher sensitivity, but it also tilts the response toward the mids and highs. In general you find the lowest Qes in guitar drivers, where maximum sensitivity in the mid and highs is desired, and low frequency performance doesn't matter. Instrument drivers, particularly guitar drivers, tend to have short xmax relative to their power ratings because high THD is a desired trait, it's what delivers a compressed mid heavy tone. The relatively high Fs and low Qes of the 10FH530 makes it best suited as a PA midbass cab driver, to be used along with subs.