Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

[killersoundz]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

If it's 'permanent' I would use as much MDF as I can. And Yes, 8 of those drivers are going to make some serious SPL.

Nice place.

Yeah I was thinking about MDF as well, although I severely loathe MDF dust. And thanks for being positive about it. He's only going to be pushing all the subs with only 2 crown microtech 2400's for now, so 400 watts to each driver? but that should still be enough to slam the room. I don't even think the Nady dual 15's he has hooked up now are even doing anything, and the EV kick bins fall off like a rock, I don't believe I've really felt a heavy 45hz or under note on any dance tracks with the current setup. That's about to change...

[duanebro]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

I'd love to get a job like that. I'm sure you'll be watching for the smile on your customers face the first time he hears them! I also don't like MDF, but if you are going to use it - don't for the braces. That stuff splits way to easy. I clamp it, no nails or screws. I have not seen Araucoply, but that sounds better.

[killersoundz]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

I'd love to get a job like that. I'm sure you'll be watching for the smile on your customers face the first time he hears them! I also don't like MDF, but if you are going to use it - don't for the braces. That stuff splits way to easy. I clamp it, no nails or screws. I have not seen Araucoply, but that sounds better.

Oh yeah definitely! I think there's going to be smiles all around, especially since that room isn't very big there are going to be some notes that just shake your insides. I am mostly anticipating the sound quality improvement because his current subs sound quite muddy, it sounds like it rolls off dead below 60hz and the harmonic distortion is high. You don't really get that ultra deep rumbling bass that you need on the dance tracks they play on dance night there. These definimax's are going to be a bit underpowered, the positive side to that is at least they will have pretty low THD so the quality will be dyamite, but he will also have some headroom to add another pair of amps if he wants to juice it up even more, but I feel like that won't even be necessary.

Yeah I only glue and clamp my cabinets. You probably haven't seen my other guitar cab build thread on here but I have pretty high standards for that stuff!

I'll be using dowel braces for these guys, I'm probably not going too overboard with it but enough that should pass the 'knock test'.

[Paul O]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

Can't see the speakers clearly in the pics posted above so I processed one of them a little to get a better look. It appears you have some EV MTL-1s there with some other reflex bin on top of them. If so then yeah they're not really subs by todays standards(-3db at 50hz) even though EV continues to market them as such.. http://www.loyola.com/av/products/audio/ev-mtl1x.html. And I'm sure Bill and the others will comment on the position of the stacks way out from the wall and that far apart as not helping matters at all, and if the new subs are postioned the same you will still have problems with uneven bass coverage in the room and near complete cancellation of some frequencies.

[killersoundz]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

Can't see the speakers clearly in the pics posted above so I processed one of them a little to get a better look. It appears you have some EV MTL-1s there with some other reflex bin on top of them. If so then yeah they're not really subs by todays standards(-3db at 50hz) even though EV continues to market them as such.. http://www.loyola.com/av/products/audio/ev-mtl1x.html. And I'm sure Bill and the others will comment on the position of the stacks way out from the wall and that far apart as not helping matters at all, and if the new subs are postioned the same you will still have problems with uneven bass coverage in the room and near complete cancellation of some frequencies.

Oh man I know. When he was first setting up the venue a year and a half ago he consulted me about the sound a bit. I told him if there's anyway to make one cluster of the subs that is the way to go. I am against having 'stereo subs' unless they're like 30 or 40ft apart on either side of a massive stage, that's the only time it makes sense.

Unfortunately as you can see there is basically no other option for this venue the way it's setup. They have a lot of concerts there (that's mostly what they do) so with bands on the stage you can't put the subs up against the wall. I wish they had more ceiling height because he would have no problem with building a taller stage and putting the subs under it, which is the way to go. Have to work with what they have.

From what I've heard the bass *is* spotty in areas. Moving around in places between the two 'sub stacks' gets some big comb filtering, on either side of the stage though (entirely off axis of the mains which is another issue) the bass is relatively uniform. It's hit or miss I mean live sound a lot of times IS a crap shoot unless you really put a lot of engineering and design behind the setup and the room itself. I'm fairly well educated on room acoustics. Still those subs he has need to go, it's time for an upgrade!

PS - Yeah they are EV MTL-1x's. What those 'subs' are to me is a way for EV to utilize really cheap woofers safely, with the incredibly small enclosure volume to minimize xmax and market a crappy product to make some $$$. The other boxes on top of them are Nady Dual 15's. I have no words to the utter crap heap those are.

[Paul O]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

What those 'subs' are to me is a way for EV to utilize really cheap woofers

Cheap? Have you priced an EVX-180B lately? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=294-565

Despite the out-to-lunch markup these things suffer from they aren't low quality drivers they're just not suited to the application they are currently applied in. And same goes for the cabinets, it's a 50hz design being used to support music with strong 30hz content.. something that just doesn't work.

The other curiosity I see in the pic is why the Nady boxes are laid on thier side? Are these not fullrange cabs or are they just reflex loaded 15" bass bins? If they're just more bass that explains some of the mud you say this system generates, I mean what do you expect to get when there are reflex and horn loaded boxes operating the the same frequency range. And if that's the case what is covering the rest of the audio spectrum?

[killersoundz]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

Cheap? Have you priced an EVX-180B lately? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=294-565

Despite the out-to-lunch markup these things suffer from they aren't low quality drivers they're just not suited to the application they are currently applied in. And same goes for the cabinets, it's a 50hz design being used to support music with strong 30hz content.. something that just doesn't work.

The other curiosity I see in the pic is why the Nady boxes are laid on thier side? Are these not fullrange cabs or are they just reflex loaded 15" bass bins? If they're just more bass that explains some of the mud you say this system generates, I mean what do you expect to get when there are reflex and horn loaded boxes operating the the same frequency range. And if that's the case what is covering the rest of the audio spectrum?

Yeah they're Nady dual 15 subs, which I believe retail for like $400 for the pair :D. The 'mains' are a pair of Yorkville dual 10's + 1" exit horn hanging from the ceiling.

[Paul O]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

Yeah they're Nady dual 15 subs, which I believe retail for like $400 for the pair :D. .

Added at some point in an effort to get more bass no doubt.:rolleyes: P.S. Just saw them on PSSL for $209ea!! Holy pile-o-doggydo batman, those things aren't worth the cardboard boxes they were shipped in.

The 'mains' are a pair of Yorkville dual 10's + 1" exit horn hanging from the ceiling.

Well they should cover the topend nicely, just need some proper subs to go with them.:D

[killersoundz]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

Cheap? Have you priced an EVX-180B lately? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=294-565

Oh and for the record. Lets face it, EV and JBL hyper inflate the prices of their raw drivers just because that is about 0.5% of their business, and it makes it seem like they're something special. But the 18's in those kick bins aren't the 180B. I've scoped them out they appear pretty wimpy in comparison. Unfortunately I know of another local venue that uses a pair of these exact same kickbins for their low end...........arghhh can't get away from them lol

[Paul O]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

Oh and for the record. Lets face it, EV and JBL hyper inflate the prices of their raw drivers just because that is about 0.5% of their business, and it makes it seem like they're something special.

What I have heard is that the rediculous prices are to keep them from showing up in too many DIY boxes of unknown design and quality... which could tarnish the manufacturers reputation. I can see that point.. but in EV's case at least thier own designs have stagnated somewhat while JBL continued to develep more powerful and better performing drivers, some of which have gone on to become the swiss army knife of the speaker world(ex:2226, 2241, 2242), so I don't know that it has really worked out in their(EV's) favor.

But the 18's in those kick bins aren't even close to being on the level of that 180B. I've scoped them out they're pretty wimpy, I'd say they're in the 3 or 4mm xmax range of woofers

Could be the DL18mt then which was the precursor to the EVX, both have the same xmax of 5.5mm but the DL was only rated at 400w. If there is anything else in the cabs then it's no wonder they perform so badly.. there aren't many other suitable drivers.

[A.M. Productions]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

So lets see here. What amps are you using to push the subs. The Nady subs should be burned. They are not even suitable for my HT Setup.

[killersoundz]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

So lets see here. What amps are you using to push the subs. The Nady subs should be burned. They are not even suitable for my HT Setup.

He's using a pair of Crown Macrotech 2400's. They're rated at 800w/channel at 4 ohms. I assume that's how he's running them. I agree at 400w per driver the Nady's *should* be toast. However he's running a fourth order 40hz HP I believe and that may be saving them.

[A.M. Productions]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

He's using a pair of Crown Macrotech 2400's. They're rated at 800w/channel at 4 ohms. I assume that's how he's running them. I agree at 400w per driver the Nady's *should* be toast. However he's running a fourth order 40hz HP I believe and that may be saving them.

Any lower and the POS would bottom out. The cab is only rated for 800 Watts max. If he clips the amps at all the Nadys should die just like that. The specs say they go down to 20Hz. I really doubt that. The box would probably fall apart.

[Randy L]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

The club actually looks like a nice place..not a dive that folks like to toss beer bottles in. For a more finished and "elegant look, which I think will compliment the looks of the club, what is the possibility of building the 18" sub cabs into the front of the stage? What's the height of the stage?
Carrying on with the "clean look" I'd even recommend suspending the mains from the ceiling angled downward a bit. Also mount at least one main towards the tables to the sides of the stage for better coverage.

Also, the bar is pretty close to the stage. Too much bass and the bartender and bar manager will hate "you" for causing their glasses to scoot off the shelves.

[killersoundz]

Re: Building 4 Dual 18 boxes, help needed and build thread

Looks like I have to hold off on the build for a little bit, he said the city cracked down on them for their signage and he's gotta use the funds for that right now or something. Ah!!! Wanna build!