Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

[Jason]

I'm gearing up to build some PA speakers. I picked up a set of Eminence Delta Pro 12A speakers and am starting to look into compression drivers to match with it. The D220ti seems like a popular driver, and I see it's used a lot in the Ewaves designs. Is it adequate for moderately high powered PA use, or do I need to look into a more "robust" driver to mate with the Delta Pros? It seems like the ewave design is mostly used for hi-fi use - has anyone tried them for real PA use?

- Jason

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

It seems like the ewave design is mostly used for hi-fi use - has anyone tried them for real PA use?

- Jason

Ewaves are PA speakers, using PA drivers, that have been adopted by mainly the HT crowd. The D220ti is fine provided you don't overpower it. That means using no less than third order high pass filtering, preferably fourth order.

[wg_ski]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

You don't want to go 'blasting' a D220 unless you cross over above about 2k. For HT use, you can get away with the lower crossover - even down to 1200. Are you supposed to cross a 12 at 2k? No, but people (and many loudspeaker manufacturers) do it. The result isn't as awful as it would be with a 15. You can always compromise somewhere in the middle or use a more expensive and capable CD. For what you pay for a 1" that can take a low crossover and abuse you can get a 2" (they cost more than the woofer).

[Jason]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

Ewaves are PA speakers, using PA drivers, that have been adopted by mainly the HT crowd. The D220ti is fine provided you don't overpower it. That means using no less than third order high pass filtering, preferably fourth order.

Right, I know they use "Pro Sound" drivers... but it seems like they are intended for hi-fi/HT use (i.e. high efficiency stereo speakers). I have been out of the speaker building loop for a while and only just heard about them yesterday, and it seemed like lots of home use. I didn't see much mention of them being used in a pro-sound application and was wondering how any of the various incarnations actually worked for pro sound use.

[greywarden]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

They're High Fidelity PA speakers for home, home theater and Pro Sound use, designed around the concept of constant directivity.

[Jason]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

They're High Fidelity PA speakers for home, home theater and Pro Sound use, designed around the concept of constant directivity.

right... but I still haven't heard any comments on how they work for Pro Sound use

[greywarden]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

They probably work as well or better than any other 12" + horn cab. Definitely sound better.

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

Definitely sound better.

Not really, they're not doing anything we haven't been doing in high end pro-sound for forty years. They'll sound better than your typical cheap entry level PA, but no better than a well engineered PA cab.

[Jason]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

Not really, they're not doing anything we haven't been doing in high end pro-sound for forty years. They'll sound better than your typical cheap entry level PA, but no better than a well engineered PA cab.

Yeah, I guess that's more what I expected. I could see them being better than the typical Guitar Center Behringer/Peavey/Yamaha/JBL stuff, but I have a hard time believing they'd perform like a Nexo PS15 or Meyer UPA-1P. I'm just curious where they run out of gas.

[badman]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

Not really, they're not doing anything we haven't been doing in high end pro-sound for forty years. They'll sound better than your typical cheap entry level PA, but no better than a well engineered PA cab.

The key difference is that it uses a diffraction-slot free, constant directivity horn. The vast majority of PA cabs historically have had less consistent pattern control, and those that did better in that respect usually relied upon a diffraction slot which is not desirable from a SQ perspective.

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

The key difference is that it uses a diffraction-slot free, constant directivity horn.

Which originally appeared in PA cabs and many now employ. They're hardly unique to the DIY community.

I have a hard time believing they'd perform like a Nexo PS15 or Meyer UPA-1P. I'm just curious where they run out of gas.

The same place that comparable PA cabs do. The trick lies in finding out what those PA cabs have for drivers.

[Paul O]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

I built a set of with the D210ti and DeltaLite 2512 using an Eminence pxb1k6 as the basis for the crossover and the large Dayton H110 CD horn flare. I added a zobel, L-pad, and CD correction and I'm still tweaking the crossover a year later. Overall I'd say they sound pretty good for a PA box and there's no issue with the compression driver running out of gas, it needs at least 6db of padding to mate with the woofer so it's safe with as much as 500w input.

[Jason]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

Thanks Paul. Those look really nice and exactly like what I'm shooting for. I also just found JeffB's SEOS design that uses the Delta Pro and the Denovo DNA-360, which looks like another viable option.

[badman]

Re: Selenium D220ti/Ewave for Pro Sound use

The key difference is that it uses a diffraction-slot free, constant directivity horn. The vast majority of PA cabs historically have had less consistent pattern control, and those that did better in that respect usually relied upon a diffraction slot which is not desirable from a SQ perspective.

Which originally appeared in PA cabs and many now employ.

You're disagreeing with what I'm not saying- I used several qualifiers in my response. "Historically, usually". Most Ewave systems (with a competent low-pass, hardly a given) will outperform most similar range pro setups, for home use, part of that is a reduction in protection circuitry as well as filters tuned with SQ prioritized over driver protection, etc, boxes built/modified with SQ prioritized over portability.

I agree that there are a number of modern pro cabs with excellent performance in the same ways as an Ewave.