dual 12" floor monitor tweeter questions

[brainbanana]

Re: dual 12" floor monitor tweeter questions

The placebo effect had better work, because I doubt you could give him any more volume with the 2x12 *without feedback*. Probably less, actually. The peaks and nulls in the pattern will make it even less intelligible than a single driver solution. You'd need a real crossover, at a low enough frequency (1200 Hz) to prevent that. Not happening here. And any time there is a peak in the response there's that much less gain you can give it before it starts squealing.

Thanks for the valued input. I do honestly feel the placebo effect may work in this situation, because we all really do have plenty of vocal monitor. But I am definitely open to working on this cabinet as I go to increase the efficiency and lower feedback possibilities, once I give it a trial run this weekend. So, you are saying I should build a crossover with the crossover point at 1200 Hz. That's all fine and dandy, but I have no clue how to do that. Even with the nice gentlemen offering me diagrams and such, I still have no idea what to buy and how to put it together. I am running 15 band graphic EQ's on each monitor mix, which do help me tailor the presence of our vocals. Any thoughts on frequencies for bringing out more vocals would be appreciated, as well.

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: dual 12" floor monitor tweeter questions

Any thoughts on frequencies for bringing out more vocals would be appreciated, as well.

Look at an equal loudness chart. For maximum flat response the graphic should resemble the chart, boosting the highs and lows that we don't hear so well. For maximum intelligibility it should be the inverse, boosting the frequencies that we most easily hear, so that they'll cut through the other stage noise.

[wg_ski]

Re: dual 12" floor monitor tweeter questions

Like I said, 1200 Hz isn't going to happen with a piezo. That's why the real ones use 2" CDs. You can get the 12"/piezo to work, but it may not work any better than the other wedges you already have. And using two 12's together probably won't give any more useful output than one when there is a microphone nearby. You're trying to throw more cheap speaker at a feedback/volume conflict and I doubt it will help in the end. You may be better off with a high quality high sensitivity 10" that's flat through the midrange, so the mids can be boosted and not feed back (as much).

[brainbanana]

Re: dual 12" floor monitor tweeter questions

Look at an equal loudness chart. For maximum flat response the graphic should resemble the chart, boosting the highs and lows that we don't hear so well. For maximum intelligibility it should be the inverse, boosting the frequencies that we most easily hear, so that they'll cut through the other stage noise.

Ah, I see. I have always leaned toward maximum loudness, boosting the highs and lows. I definitely boost the mids on the monitors, though. Since there are only vocals in them, perhaps I'll take some lows and highs out, and boost the mids a bit more. interesting thought on intelligibility.

[brainbanana]

Re: dual 12" floor monitor tweeter questions

Like I said, 1200 Hz isn't going to happen with a piezo. That's why the real ones use 2" CDs. You can get the 12"/piezo to work, but it may not work any better than the other wedges you already have. And using two 12's together probably won't give any more useful output than one when there is a microphone nearby. You're trying to throw more cheap speaker at a feedback/volume conflict and I doubt it will help in the end. You may be better off with a high quality high sensitivity 10" that's flat through the midrange, so the mids can be boosted and not feed back (as much).

So, you're saying I need to use different tweeters AND a crossover in order to crossover at 1200? I'm a little confused, sorry, don't know much about frequency ratings for piezos versus drivers or whatever.

I do know that I wired the cabinet up today, and am very pleased with the sound. It is very similar to my 1x12 wedges, which have some kind of small Motorola horn drivers with just a resistor between them and the 12" speaker, no crossover. The 2X12 cab seems to have more of the frequencies that vocals would be. Midrange is really present. I think it might just work for me. I'll see how it does at our show this Saturday. Worst case scenario, I just unplug it if it sounds terrible. We still have the monitor system we are using anyways, I will just be adding this one to make 4 instead of 3. Plus, since I used a bunch of odd things I have acquired through the years to put this together, I only have $20 invested in it. I call that bang for the buck.

Thanks fellas.

[brainbanana]

Re: dual 12" floor monitor tweeter questions

Just a follow up for my own enjoyment. I added the 2x12 monitor to our other three 1x12 wedges at the show Sat. night, and it really sounded good! Didn't have any distortion problems, and it sounded very similar to my other monitors. I think my bass player like seeing the big 2x12 cab right at the front center stage, and I am sure it increased our overall monitor stage volume, which is exactly what we needed. No feedback problems at all. The other thing that he did was buy a decent mic finally. I had an EV PL80a as his vocal (I use an old PL70 N/D for my vocals, which is phenomenal). The PL80a was just a little weak before feedback. I told him to get a new mic for himself, and he ran out and bought a Samson piece of crap low end model, which of course sounded like utter dog turds (my old radio shack mic sounded better). So, I gave him some guidelines and instructions for buying a vocal mic, and he bought himself a brand new Senheiser 835. That mic sounds fabulous for him, and has very good gain-before-feedback. So, between the Senheiser and the extra monitor, I think we had plenty of on-stage vocals, and because of that, all is right with the world today. Thanks for giving me a place I can babble on about this crap. Everyone's advice is much appreciated.