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outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

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  • #1

    outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

    DOH! Outdoor evenT. Not Outdoor even. Sorry, can't edit.

    Hey guys,

    I'm responsible for SR for an outdoor gig with seating distances about 20 to 50m. I have speakers I think will cover this with dual 12" woofers and 1" CD. Modelling suggests ~125db with 500watts @1m. So I'm getting peaks reasonably around 90db even way back around 50m. This isn't supposed to be a Metallica concert, just a little show in the park. Could someone confirm that seems suitable.

    The subwoofer is the tricky part. I need to rent or I do have a crappy looking 15" bagend available. The Bag End has no model number on it unfortunately. I was gonna leave that behind because it's passive and so I'd also have to find a way to power it. So thinking of renting a single 21" with 2400watts self power. Or a pair of 18s if that's not enough. Does anyone think that's overkill?? I don't wanna come up short, but also don't wanna have to lug around to much gear and pay rental fees in not required.

    The content will include the typical drums, bass guitar, keyboard, etc.

    Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

    Originally posted by ryanbouma View Post
    ...I'm responsible for SR for an outdoor gig with seating distances about 20 to 50m. ,,, So thinking of renting a single 21" with 2400watts self power. Or a pair of 18s ...
    No it is not overkill.
    Outdoors eats up SPL especially with those distances.
    FWIW: Done sound outdoors at those distances using (2) 18" cabs before.
    "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
    “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
    "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

      Do you think I should bring more firepower than that? I'd hate to be under. I could even bring along that Bag End just for a touch more low end. Powering it is a PITA though because you know what get power and cabling is like at outdoor events and such. This is a pretty small time gig, but still...
      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

        Hi Ryan,

        Drums and bass? Subs, absolutely. At least two 18's, four if they're available.

        Jeff
        [email protected]

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

          Originally posted by ryanbouma View Post
          Do you think I should bring more firepower than that? I'd hate to be under. I could even bring along that Bag End just for a touch more low end. l...
          Personally I would bring 4; because inverse square drop more closely applies outdoors.
          But all the same drivers to better integrate ( not the Bag End ).
          Of course it depends on the Crest factor for this particular bands; but as you are including including bass and drums...
          "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
          “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
          "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

            Thanks guys. I can't swing 4. The facilitators just aren't expecting that. Its a church. They thought the 15" bag end was huge. I told the pastor the band will kill it. It's not a church band. The band seems to play relatively heavy.
            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

              Originally posted by ryanbouma View Post
              . The band seems to play relatively heavy.
              Put together what you think would be a good system for this band indoors.. and then double it and you might not feel too lacking. You definitely need subs but I wouldn't be surprised if you need more tops too, if each member of the band brings a big instrument amp you will have your hands full just getting the vocals above the stage wash.
              Paul O

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              • #8
                Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

                Originally posted by ryanbouma View Post
                ...This isn't supposed to be a Metallica concert, just a little show in the park. Could someone confirm that seems suitable.
                What is the band's repertoire?
                Some genres are much more bass intensive then others.
                "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

                  The band is this: http://russrosenband.com/

                  They're rock.

                  I think I'm gonna rent a 21" and hope for the best. If I have to keep the levels on the low side, so be it. I can probably site the sub next to the bass cab as long as the bassist doesn't mind that, and as long as they're time aligned. Then they can both contribute to the overall output. Stupid idea? I'll make due with what I have and the 21" rental. That's certainly double over what I'd get for the indoor gig. They did it in the church a couple years ago (I wasn't there) and they used the 15" bag end and some pretty crappy gear. But listening distances were half at least so...
                  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

                    Do you capability on your mix board to Aux feed Bass?
                    "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                    “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                    "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

                      I'm not sure what you mean? I was going to capture the bass with a DI box. Cross over would be handled by the amp DSP for the mains and the subwoofer plate amp.

                      EDIT - Do you mean this: http://totalproaudio.stevebunting.co.../aux-fed-subs/

                      I'll look into that. I'm not sure. I don't think the board is that comprehensive though.
                      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

                        Yes that is the concept:
                        Another article:
                        Page not found - ProSoundWeb
                        http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/print/a_detailed_explanation_of_the_aux_fed_subwoofer_technique

                        FWIW: It is useful and could be used to segregate ONLY bass to that buss and get more "umph" out of the bass.
                        "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                        “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                        "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

                          Thanks to all for the advice I got here. The event went really well.



                          That's two Yorkville LS2100. Yes there was a very audible power alley. But what am I supposed to do... All in all it worked out well. I don't think the subs were working very hard, but when the sub revealed the cones, they were travelling probably 10mm. Total WAG but it looked about that. I believe they're B&C woofers, so lots more in the tank, but was nice to know there was more available. Oh and the JBLs struggled a bit so I moved up my XO to 120hz and that helped. Sounded fine doing that.
                          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

                            Originally posted by ryanbouma View Post
                            ...That's two Yorkville LS2100. Yes there was a very audible power alley. But what am I supposed to do... ...
                            You could try to center cluster the bass bins dead ahead.
                            Adjustment with respect to L&R would have to be made.
                            "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                            “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                            "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: outdoor even - sizing equipment (particularly subwoofer)

                              To late. And as usual, center cluster just doesn't physically work for such an event. Would have hammered the band with bass, and looked awful.

                              The seating was very informal. Just sit down anywhere you please kind of thing. If the bass was to heavy, hopefully they moved. If not heavy enough, they probably missed out.
                              https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

                              Comment

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