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  • #16
    Re: Small Sub For Live Use

    If Tedward lived locally he could try my T24, I did ( RE post #9 ). The original T24 article indicated that it was made for a bass guitar; I tried it in that regard as well as other apps ( PA, HiFi etc ).

    Some drummers modify the drummer throne with a rump kicker, cheaper and to me, makes more sense than another cab and amp.
    Friends in the mobile version of the Mountain Stage Band get themselves and gear in a single vehicle for small gigs. Small amps like Ashdowns and Fender Blues Juniors are ample.
    Must be an inverse relationship between a Musician's Age and the size and weight of gear being toted. ( backs and hernias )
    It's nice however to come out of a small club ( like Jorma's Fur Peace Ranch ) and not have ringing ears.

    I'm guessing that there are some tricks and techniques that could be applied to clean up things and make the Kick drum more perceptible.
    "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
    “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
    "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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    • #17
      Re: Small Sub For Live Use

      Originally posted by Sydney View Post
      If Tedward lived locally he could try my T24, I did ( RE post #9 ). The original T24 article indicated that it was made for a bass guitar; I tried it in that regard as well as other apps ( PA, HiFi etc ).
      The 16" T24 is pretty small for a FLH bass horn. It's just slightly smaller than my POC2 TH, which shares very similar dimensions (see build here - http://www.diysubwoofers.org/projects/other/PA310-TH/ which will give an idea of its size). I replaced that with POC3, and interestingly enough one of the reasons was that the dimensions for POC3 were a bit more trunk-friendly . The POC3 (around the same volume) is quite a bit more sensitive between 40 Hz and 80 Hz, but then the T24 beats it both above and below. Not that I'd recommend the POC3 for this solution anyway - gotta add around 8ms of delay to everything else for the best results, and no way to do that with live kit like a drum set

      Originally posted by Sydney View Post
      Some drummers modify the drummer throne with a rump kicker, cheaper and to me, makes more sense than another cab and amp.
      Ok, you sent me to Google with that one . You're referring to a ****-kicker, right? Interesting use for one - attaching it to the drummer's chair....

      I'm actually with you concerning SPL level. I can understand the musicians wanting to crank it up, and the gear available these days is able to do it without sounding distressed (which might not actually be a good thing, if the musician is looking for a bit of distortion to get the "tone" he wants), but I actually prefer to listen to live small bands at a lower volume, one where loud conversation in the audience stands out as being quite disruptive and rude if it's done during the performance. In particular, if you've got to amplify the drums, then it's too loud, LOL.

      However, what if the poster is just looking to extend the LF performance of the drums, rather than increase their overall volume....?
      Brian Steele
      www.diysubwoofers.org

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      • #18
        Re: Small Sub For Live Use

        Originally posted by Brian Steele View Post
        ...I'm actually with you concerning SPL level. I can understand the musicians wanting to crank it up, and the gear available these days is able to do it without sounding distressed (which might not actually be a good thing, if the musician is looking for a bit of distortion to get the "tone" he wants), but I actually prefer to listen to live small bands at a lower volume, one where loud conversation in the audience stands out as being quite disruptive and rude if it's done during the performance. In particular, if you've got to amplify the drums, then it's too loud, LOL.

        However, what if the poster is just looking to extend the LF performance of the drums, rather than increase their overall volume....?
        I got the impression that Tedward is set on his course, but I'm betting that his stage setup can be changed to get the kick perceptible without getting louder ;)
        "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
        “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
        "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

        Comment


        • #19
          POC received

          Originally posted by Brian Steele View Post
          ... I replaced that with POC3, and interestingly enough one of the reasons was that the dimensions for POC3 were a bit more trunk-friendly . ...
          Thanks for the POC3 info - very nice.
          I consider such linearity important, but that's just me :D ;)
          "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
          “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
          "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: POC received

            OK, so I'm back. No offense taken Sydney. So, you are saying 97-100db on the stage is loud. If so I have no problem turning it down to get a better sound up front.

            Most of the gigs we do are small venues and we furnish the PA. IF we do a larger gig the system is furnished and subs are provided. All we want to do is increase the LF up front with the smaller gigs.

            Tedward

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            • #21
              Re: POC received

              Originally posted by tomdaugherty View Post
              OK, so I'm back. No offense taken Sydney. So, you are saying 97-100db on the stage is loud. If so I have no problem turning it down to get a better sound up front.

              Most of the gigs we do are small venues and we furnish the PA. IF we do a larger gig the system is furnished and subs are provided. All we want to do is increase the LF up front with the smaller gigs.

              Tedward
              I do think that it is advantageous to get the stage volume as low as possible. Recently I posted pics from a venue that seated 200 and the stage set-up run a minimum of gear on the stage, with the majority of sound from the L & R main and subs.
              In some cases there are no stage amps and the instruments direct feed to the mix board. The musicians have floor monitors.
              Ears suffer less fatigue at a lower SPL; Ear ringing is not good.
              Without knowing the specifics of the setups and stage sizes, specific advise isn't that easy. ;)
              How many open mics?
              When you provide the PA, who runs the board?
              "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
              “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
              "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: POC received

                I work at a lower stage volume.

                We have three open mics for vocals.

                The acoustic guitar and fiddle go directly to the board and at times I will run my bass direct through an Eden WTD pedal.

                I have been running the board. It can be a pain in the ***, trying to play and sound. We now have a sound guy, though.

                Tedward

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                • #23
                  Re: POC received

                  Playing and running the board doesn't work well, A proactive sound guy helps this situation.

                  Open mics allow for sum up and bleed in. Gating these microphones is one option.
                  The S.G. can assign these mics to a sub mix and bring up/down channels as needed.
                  Engage the low filter on these lines to suppress the content below 100Hz and duck down the bass level on these.
                  Experiment with the phase reversal switch on these channels.
                  If the drummer can't hear the bass drum find what is swamping it, it could be the bass guitar. Try adjusting the distance of bass guitar speakers from the drummer and with respect to walls.
                  Don't know if you mic the bass drum, but that can be assigned to an Aux feed that may help punch it forward.
                  "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                  “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                  "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                  Comment

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