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  • #16
    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    Uhm- which one? Cecropia or Attitudes?
    I am bad with names lol. Also you have built how many now? This is you, and all those other little guys are your speakers

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    • #17
      Uhm- a lot! I really haven't counted in awhile, but enough about me in your thread....
      Later,
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Wolf View Post
        The only thing you can't do in a passive xover is boost or increase level of output relative to the input. Passives only cut and contour.
        That said- I also tend to prefer passives.

        Later,
        Wolf

        While you can do time delay passively (asymmetric electrical slopes, ladder networks, sloped/stepped baffles) IMO it's a heck of lot easier to do it actively.
        The elephant in the room is the room

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        • #19
          I am bringing this thread back as a system change has led to a new discovery.

          I had stated that the active was more detailed but I have changed back to passive for simplicity. One of the main things that changed was my amp. I was using two of the outlaw 7075s channels for left and right before going active and shortly when I went back to passive. This should put out about 75w at 8ohm 115w at 4ohm. This was the same setup as the one before going active to clarify.

          After living with this set up for a while I got to thinking "I have that crown xls 1500 just sitting there lets see what happens when I hook it up" (the crown is actually part of my bass rig but we haven't been playing shows and that is the only time I use it so I figured why not get more use out of it?). Almost immediately I noticed the resolution I had with the active setup was back and now it seemed that there was actually more dynamic to the sound, especially with impact and depth of the lower end. In the end I attribute all of this to the extra power of the crown (also had extra power with the active setup) over the 2 channels of the outlaw.

          I use to believe all amps sounded the same when working properly but now have had a few amps that are considered well made that don't.

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          • #20
            I love my XLS1500, really brings out the music.

            रेतुर्न तो थे स्रोत
            return to the source
            leviathan system thread
            deadhorse thread
            shockwave build thread

            instagram :: greywarden_13

            in war, victory . . . in peace, vigilance . . . in death, sacrifice.

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            • #21
              It is a beast of an amp for the price. As I have said before, I have pushed mine very hard at shows and never had a problem.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by killa View Post
                I use to believe all amps sounded the same when working properly but now have had a few amps that are considered well made that don't.
                Glad to see you come around Killa . Nice thread too, thanks for taking the time to write it up! It was interesting when Meniscus did their comparison using the passive Mandolin kit vs a MiniDSP.

                My biggest eye opener for realizing that amps do sound different was when we compared Craig's PS Audio to my Carver TFM-55. My Carver should be (substantially) more powerful, but Craig's PS Audio easily walked away in terms of performance over my Carver... and my Carver was recently rebuilt by Rolland Barr. I still refuse to go down that rabbit hole though (finding the "best sounding amplifier")... my pockets aren't deep enough for that adventure .
                "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

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                • #23
                  Interesting post. Just some general thoughts. I have listened to enough active systems now to form some general opinions. I will start with mids and tweets. I prefer passive xovers. There is a openess to the top end that active can't duplicate, yet. I think it is just a matter of time though. Now for the bass, cause its all about the bass. I really like some of the active woofers I have listened to. Best way to describe it, no bloat. Just clean and natural. I have always said there is a difference in the sound of amps. My reference amps are spectral, jeff rowlands, and ps audio. I have a few other very nice amps I use also. There are definite differences in the sound of all of them. Very noticeable in some cases.
                  craigk

                  " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
                    My biggest eye opener for realizing that amps do sound different was when we compared Craig's PS Audio to my Carver TFM-55. My Carver should be (substantially) more powerful, but Craig's PS Audio easily walked away in terms of performance over my Carver...
                    PS Audio is not exactly known for quality engineering or build quality. One might go so far as to call them an embarrassment.

                    This is one example of a PS Audio amp that a careful listener will be able to distinguish from a real amp:


                    Here's another one that's not as garbage...but still garbage.


                    And of course the lowly Sprout's frequency response into multiple impedances. It is at least flat into the NHT load, showing it has competent parts (Anaview amp module) but the non-defeatable EQ consigns it to the ranks of garbage-fi.


                    Nobody disputes that incompetently-designed amp or broken amps can sound different from well designed amplifiers of competent build.
                    --
                    "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Pallas View Post

                      PS Audio is not exactly known for quality engineering or build quality. One might go so far as to call them an embarrassment.

                      ...snip...

                      Nobody disputes that incompetently-designed amp or broken amps can sound different from well designed amplifiers of competent build.
                      Except the PS Audio mopped the floor with my Carver. I'm not sure if you're just trying to be an a-hole and saying both my Carver TFM-55 and Craig's PS Audio are "incompetently designed" or what it is you're saying... but I also have an Adcom GFA-5500, and a Aragon 4004 amp, and my Carver was never embarrassed by either of those (actually the Carver sounded better than the Adcom, Aragon better than the Carver). So based on that... I'll have to say PS Audio must have some inclination as to what is going on. Also, Craig did modify/rebuild his PS Audio, so maybe he's a next level genius and his "Midas touch" is what really brought the acoustics out of the PS Audio.

                      Also... I'm not the only one that heard this, a few other people here did at the get together in Grand Rapids this year.

                      Since you're under the impression that you have this all figured out... which amp should we all be using? What is "the Pallas gold standard" in amplification??

                      "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                      "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

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                      • #26
                        http://www.psaudio.com/products/sprout/#tab-reviews

                        lets see, 23 independent reviews that all love the Sprout. nothing bad to say. the frequency response looks almost identical to the highly praised NAD 3020. Just one more of your ignorant rants, of which you have no clue as to what you are ranting about as usual. find me one bad review of a PS audio amp. by the way, the amp that I own is not the Sprout, so you know what happens when you assume things, you just made an *** of yourself, again. you should try getting out in the greater Atlanta area and actually listening to something. it is much better than reading about things on the internet. then you could have a real opinion on something and just not post graphs that you apparently do not understand. are you first generation college educated in your family ? it seems like you just try and impress people with your posting of information from reviews, and it is very clear that you really do not understand them. so white trash mentality. the last thing is that Paul McGowan is a good amp designer. Paul is also smart enough to know he is not great and hires great designer like Odell and King to work for him. I would really like to hear an amp that you design Pallas. since you have such a vast wealth of knowledge please design us the perfect amp. I am quit sure you can do it.
                        craigk

                        " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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                        • #27
                          Pallas just has a different view of reality than most. To him, 1/4dB of linear distortion in the top-octave is unacceptable garbage. Most may find it perfectly acceptable when considering the linear distortion of the system and the audibility of 0.25dB of change in the top octave.
                          I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by dcibel
                            Pallas just has a different view of reality than most.
                            The key to good communication is brevity.
                            craigk

                            " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dcibel View Post
                              Pallas just has a different view of reality than most. To him, 1/4dB of linear distortion in the top-octave is unacceptable garbage. Most may find it perfectly acceptable when considering the linear distortion of the system and the audibility of 0.25dB of change in the top octave.

                              No Pallas has taken his time to study research about what other's think/research about what you can and cannot hear. So most of his comments are based in the limitations of human hearing and the inability of people to perform differentiation of products under blind ABX type tests. Pallas was a Geddes disciple, hardly concerned with 1/4 dB of distortion..


                              Although this is valuable information to know, it still does not make an Adcom 5500 sound like an Aragon 4004 MkII. Both well designed amplifiers that populate two different ends of the sound character scale.

                              It's audio, I no longer care. I just know all about it.



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                              • #30
                                Your posts never cease to amuse me, De Focht. Please, tell me more.
                                I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening!

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