Speaker Crossover Assistance

[acvegas1958]

Yes, I know there are free Loudspeaker Crossover Calculators on line but I am still a little confuse when using them (the audio frequency separation). So, if someone here can fill in the values for me here – shown below to make life easier. Thanks A Million.

First Order Butterworth - 2 Way
Loudspeaker Woofer: 10Hz to 200Hz - 6db/Octave (at 8 Ohms)
Coil/Inductor Value Should Be What: ???

First Order Butterworth - 2 Way
Loudspeaker Mid-Range: 200Hz to 4000Hz - 6db/Octave (at 8 Ohms)
Coil/Inductor Value Should Be What (if necessary): ???
Capacitor Value Should Be What: ???


and alternative……

First Order Butterworth- 2 Way
Loudspeaker Woofer: 10Hz to 200Hz - 6db/Octave (at 4 Ohms)
Coil/Inductor Value Should Be What: ???

First Order Butterworth - 2 Way
Loudspeaker Mid-Range: 200Hz to 4000Hz - 6db/Octave (at 4 Ohms)
Coil/Inductor Value Should Be What (if necessary): ???
Capacitor Value Should Be What: ???

[Chris Roemer]

Are you actually contemplating a 3-way (what about the top 2 octaves)?
What drivers are you considering?

[acvegas1958]

Are you actually contemplating a 3-way (what about the top 2 octaves)?
What drivers are you considering?

Piezoelectric for the tweeters.

[acvegas1958]

I see that DiyAudio & Video has some helpful info (simplifies things so-to-speak): https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Tab...over/1stOrder/

[Chris Roemer]

It's more complicated than that. There are more considerations required. 1st order filters almost never work as expected.
More "common" Fcs for a 3-way would be more like 300/3000 Hz. Maybe your piezos can't (or shouldn't) go that low?
Won't your tweeters need any attenuation?
The passive components for a 200 Hz Fc will cost more than at 300 (but that doesn't necessarily need to be a consideration).
Odds are that a 3-way using 4-ohm drivers w/shallow slopes could result in dangerously low load impedance (<3 ohms).
The drivers are a secret then?

[acvegas1958]

It's more complicated than that. There are more considerations required. 1st order filters almost never work as expected.
More "common" Fcs for a 3-way would be more like 300/3000 Hz. Maybe your piezos can't (or shouldn't) go that low?
Won't your tweeters need any attenuation?
The passive components for a 200 Hz Fc will cost more than at 300 (but that doesn't necessarily need to be a consideration).
Odds are that a 3-way using 4-ohm drivers w/shallow slopes could result in dangerously low load impedance (<3 ohms).
The drivers are a secret then?

I am using a Piezo Tweeter (from Parts-Express: 292-446) for the highs for the third loudspeaker which I understand no capacitor is needed which already has a Frequency response: 1,800 Hz-30,000 Hz - SPL: 92 dB 1W/1m. Once the entire loudspeaker system is assembled and built ....I will be using a 10 Band Stereo Audio Frequency Equalizer (similar to: AudioSource EQ 200) to control attenuation.

[acvegas1958]

I got Parts-Express Technical Support Team to help me sort through this. They recommended the following:

Note: I am new to this; originally, I said 2 Way - but I should have said 3 Way as noted to me by Parts-Express and others. I was mainly concerned about the Woofer & Midrange Crossover - since I would be using a Piezo Tweeter which mainly takes care of itself (No Capacitors or Inductors Needed). With a Frequency response range: 1,800Hz thru 30,000Hz. Which is my main reason for calling it a 2 Way originally.

First Order Butterworth - 3 Way

Midrange (at 8 Ohms/200Hz to 4000Hz - 6db/Octave): 113.4uF Film Capacitor with an Induction Coil: .28mH
Midrange (at 4 Ohms/200Hz to 4000Hz - 6db/Octave): 226.8uF Film Capacitor with an Induction Coil: .14mH

First Order Butterworth - 3 Way

Woofer (at 8 Ohms/10Hz to 200Hz - 6db/Octave): 5.3 mH Induction Coil
Woofer (at 4 Ohms/10Hz to 200Hz - 6db/Octave): 2.7 mH Induction Coil

And I already suggested to Parts-Express regarding the tweeter; the following:

I will be using a Piezo Tweeter (from Parts-Express: 292-446) for the highs for the third loudspeaker which I understand no capacitor is needed which already has a Frequency response: 1,800 Hz-30,000 Hz - SPL: 92 dB 1W/1m. Once the entire loudspeaker system is assembled and built .... I will be using a 10 Band Stereo Audio Frequency Equalizer (similar to: Audio Source EQ 200) to control attenuation when needed.

NOTE: Parts-Express recommends against the use of any resistors or capacitors when using their Piezo Tweeters such as their Parts-Express: 292-446 Piezo Tweeter which can handle 400 Watts easily; check their specs. I myself have used Piezo Tweeters in the past and never experienced a blow-out when using stereo amplifiers of 600 Watts per channel.

[ceiol]

I appreciate what you want to accomplish and I don't want to discourage you. But, it's just not as simple as it appears.

As a first step, save your money and get this kit

https://www.parts-express.com/c-note-mt-bookshelf-speaker-kit-pair-with-knock-down-cabinets--300-7140

it will sound great and comes complete with just about everything you need.

also read this page

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-mfaq

[acvegas1958]

I appreciate everyone’s help and not to say that “I know everything” because I don’t. Which is my reason why I am here.

I have built a large stereo audio loudspeaker system in the past (many years ago – before the internet) for my mobile disc jockey business that filled ballrooms/reception halls/convention halls/etc., easily the size of a basketball court and received raved reviews from the audience. I even got offers for others to build them a speaker system like the ones I was using.

But I was able to cure any flaws easily (if any existed) with a ten band per channel electronic stereo equalizer. Which is also what I will be using with new loudspeaker design.

So, I will take all of this forum (and other audio forum loudspeaker) recommended suggestions including Parts-Express and see what happens.

[acvegas1958]

I will build the First Order Butterworth - 3 Way crossover circuit board design first and experiment ("sandbox/testing environment") with different film capacitors and coil Inductors first using Parts-Express suggested recommendations with advice found at this forum and see which offers me the best audio sound first before making my final decision.

[Chris Roemer]

Are the other drivers NOT sourced through PE? Are they 4 or 8 ohm (or haven't you decided yet)?
A filter that uses a cap AND coil will be 2nd order (electric), not 1st order.
Are your mid and woofer the same sensitivity? If not, there'll be a need for some level balancing there.
Do you know about (or require) "baffle step compensation"?

[acvegas1958]

Are the other drivers NOT sourced through PE? Are they 4 or 8 ohm (or haven't you decided yet)?
A filter that uses a cap AND coil will be 2nd order (electric), not 1st order.
Are your mid and woofer the same sensitivity? If not, there'll be a need for some level balancing there.
Do you know about (or require) "baffle step compensation"?

I have not decided on which actual woofer and midrange loudspeaker I will be using. I already know I will be using Piezo Loudspeakers for the Tweeters. I am still debating on to use a 8 Ohm or 4 Ohm ...still pending. And as for "Baffle Step" ....Baffle Step: "step response problem of loudspeakers in free space".
In other words I have a lot of testing/experimenting to do ("sandbox/testing environment") before my final decision.

[Wolf]

ACV- you'd have a lot more people reading this and offering advice if it was in the Techtalk forum instead of over here in the finished Project Gallery area.

Welcome to the forum,
Wolf

[Altoid]

acvegas1958 I think it is great that you want to build your own 3-way speakers. There are a couple reasons you are not getting the information you are desiring. First, there's a lot more that goes into building speakers than choosing the crossover frequency. That is part of it, but each driver (tweeter, midrange and woofer) also needs to be matched to it's sensitivity (attenuated) or certain frequencies will play louder. There are also phase issues, impedance issues and the dreaded baffle step that need to be taken into account. That's not to say you can't and or should not do it. In fact, I highly encourage you to do it. But before you get started you should download Passive Crossover Designer by Jeff Bagby (It's free!). Then if you are up to watching a few videos, I created a video series on how to create a crossover with whatever drivers you chose. Of course, you do not have to watch the videos, feel free to read the tutorial if you would rather. However you best learn. Just realize a lot of people are weary of giving you the crossover frequencies without taking everything else into account. They do not want to be blamed if it doesn't turn out the way you plan it to. Have no fear, Jeff Bagby's program, can help you out a lot.

[Altoid]

I have not decided on which actual woofer and midrange loudspeaker I will be using. I already know I will be using Piezo Loudspeakers for the Tweeters. I am still debating on to use a 8 Ohm or 4 Ohm ...still pending. And as for "Baffle Step" ....Baffle Step: "step response problem of loudspeakers in free space".
In other words I have a lot of testing/experimenting to do ("sandbox/testing environment") before my final decision.

I think you may not have a complete grasp on what baffle step is. Every speaker that is mounted on a baffle needs a baffle step circuit to compensate for loss in low frequency. The size of the baffle determines the frequency in which this occurs. Here is a good article that is really short and pretty basic, that may help you with understanding the concept.