Etude - Super Budget 8" 2-way

[mzisserson]

Re: Etude - Super Budget 8" 2-way

No, I was saying that entry level DIY is closing in on high end DIY

For the sake of not turning this into a thread jack of a very good design. I will simply state I strongly disagree, and perhaps your expirences with "high end" DIY have been under less than desireable circumstances (be it venue, designs, assoiated equipment etc).

I find it hard to believe these would be close to a Malbec, Byzantiyums, Nao Note, Statemen Monitor etc....As you know, I am certinly no skeptic!

Not to downplay Tom's design, but there are limitations with inexpensive drivers, a good designers accepts that going into the design. It has been proven over and over that better drivers stay more linear as excursion increases, cones motions and breakups are more controlled, and the distortion is far lower. I am still sticking by the 10x rule, and if someone invests over $500, in drivers, they are going to hit some serious competition they may have never have heard. (JM Labs, Pro Ac, Upper-end B&W, etc) However a $100-$200 investment can get you a speaker than *can* be as good as some "high end" commercial availave at Beat Buy, or even some home theater B&M shops (Vienna acoustics, the commercial Sonus Farber stuff, Martin Logan, Boston, Polk, etc).

Its a slippery slope Johnny, but our defenitions in this world come from our expirences, and even today my definition of what is truly high end from the noise is constantly changes as I hear some amazing equipment that pushes the envlope. Most, fall way short... For the members who know me, they understand the perspective, do they all agree? No. That is fine, but the concideration is there, and its a different perspective that should be concidered as you like to give accolades to those who take their own path.

Interesting: Tom makes a good design breaking some rules that people get to *hear*, and they are believers, yet I still take ridicule for crossing the ND16 below 2500Hz. It flies in the face of the hard core numbers guys based on the fact that that tweeter should *never* be crossed that low... On paper...

Keeping OnT, Tom, do not confine yourself to "boxes", or the flavor of the week (like OB's or MLTL's), Use your instinct and push the envlope with your designs moving forward regardless of any ridicule you may recieve. Usually the result will always speak for itself. KISS everything as you have here. I have had many curmudgons tell me things I cannot do, yet work. There is the theory, and the real world. They cross at some point, and it is a delicate one to tip-toe.

So much for keeping it short.

[johnnyrichards]

Re: Etude - Super Budget 8" 2-way

but there are SOME limitations with SOME inexpensive drivers

Fixed that for you.

You know Mike, for a "slippery slope" arguing kind of guy, you deal in absolutes quite a bit.

[mzisserson]

Re: Etude - Super Budget 8" 2-way

Fixed that for you.

You know Mike, for a "slippery slope" arguing kind of guy, you deal in absolutes quite a bit.

You are impossible. :rolleyes: If that is all you got out of it, that's fine, I really do not care, but I think Tom is on a very good path here regardless.

[johnnyrichards]

Re: Etude - Super Budget 8" 2-way

You are impossible. :rolleyes: If that is all you got out of it, that's fine, I really do not care, but I think Tom is on a very good path here regardless.

Yes he is, of course you didn't hear them and can only speculate based on measurements and simulations;)

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Etude - Super Budget 8" 2-way

Yes he is, of course you didn't hear them and can only speculate based on measurements and simulations;)

The comparisons at Iowa were not full enough. The limitations of lesser drivers do become more apparent as you push the volume.

While the Etude was a superb sounding system, I've no doubt that it would fall apart far more rapidly than any of the larger systems.

However, that doesn't take anything away from tom's stellar voicing of those two drivers. For smaller venues and lower listening levels, those are some excellent values.

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Etude - Super Budget 8" 2-way

I honestly have never seen someone use a DVC sub in a 2-way. So bonus points for originality :D.

I think these speakers went over very well that day for two reasons: the box was undersized, which allowed for a bass "hump," which can often sound quite good and engaging. (Nothing wrong with that!) Second, the tweeter sounded pretty good as well. The only thing really lacking from this design was midrange; there just wasn't much of it. But what could one expect from an 8" DVC sub + a 19mm tweeter paired up in a 2-way?

But it just goes to show that you don't need perfect drivers or perfect power response to make a speaker that people get enjoyment out of.

I hope my response doesn't sound like some sort of backhanded compliment. I'm actually very impressed that Tom made this driver combo work in such an effective way.

[tom_s]

Re: Etude - Super Budget 8" 2-way

I honestly have never seen someone use a DVC sub in a 2-way. So bonus points for originality :D.

I think these speakers went over very well that day for two reasons: the box was undersized, which allowed for a bass "hump," which can often sound quite good and engaging. (Nothing wrong with that!) Second, the tweeter sounded pretty good as well. The only thing really lacking from this design was midrange; there just wasn't much of it. But what could one expect from an 8" DVC sub + a 19mm tweeter paired up in a 2-way?

But it just goes to show that you don't need perfect drivers or perfect power response to make a speaker that people get enjoyment out of.

I hope my response doesn't sound like some sort of backhanded compliment. I'm actually very impressed that Tom made this driver combo work in such an effective way.

No worries! It's not taken that way at all. With the natural roll-off of the woofer at 1K, I knew things were not ideal, especially at that price-point, and especially with that tweeter. Add in that lovely aluminum cone breakup to deal with and it sure was a learning experience for me!