Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

[Wolf]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Wolfy like Zip-Ties!




They can look good.
Later,
Wolf

[Soundslike]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Wolfy like Zip-Ties! They can look good.

Yes they can, when done with care. Your example we'll call Exhibit A.
Nice....

[ericJ]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

I trim my front baffle before I do my veneer work under the assumption that by the time I seal, add a few coats of high build primer, a couple coats of black, and 3+ coats of clear, that my paint thickness will be about equal to my veneer thickness and result in a good overall match. So far in the builds I've done, this has worked out well.

Thanks for the info. After looking at mine, I think you're right. By the time I sand and hit a few coats of clear over it all, it should flow. Up close I can see the difference, but a few feet out and it looks cool.

[Soundslike]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

EricJ's questions (in another thread) about port treatment reminded me of the difficulties I encountered while rounding over the ports. The discussion reminded me of a treatment I'd seen earlier that to me seems to set the standard. I'd give you the link now, but you probably wouldn't be back. Let me first show you the difficulty I encounterd:


You can readily see that the veneer didn't cut cleanly with the router round-over bit. I attribute that to the brittleness of the veneer (it is fragile stuff) and the angle at which the bit was trimming it. The following drawing shows what I think caused the difficulty and what I plan to do next time.

The diagram in the upper left shows how the vent was installed on this build. The vent was installed before the veneer was applied and trimmed during the roundover process shown in the lower left diagram. Notice that an angled cut through the veneer resulted.

The upper right diagram shows the process I plan to follow next time, which should result in a better cut. The vent will be installed protruding just above the surface of the MDF. The veneer will then be applied -- this sequence will make it necessary to cut a hole through the veneer for the vent to pass through, before the veneer is applied. Cutting the hole neatly will probably present challenges of its own, but with care, I should be able to achieve a close fit by sanding to the desired shape. The vent will have to be trimmed flush with the surface of the veneer, after it is applied, and before the roundover is done. The roundover will be cut only in the plastic vent as shown in the lower right diagram, to avoid the tearout problem with the veneer.

Of course, this entire problem can be avoided by ordering one of PE's inexpensive flared vents.

The example I mentioned earlier can be seen here.

If I ever learn to do faux painting like that, I'll definitely try to duplicate that gorgeous effect.

[Leroy R]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Couldn't you install the veneer first, trim it flush with the vent hole, then install the port tube and round it over?

[Soundslike]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Couldn't you install the veneer first, trim it flush with the vent hole, then install the port tube and round it over?

Yes I think you could, but you'd have to have the first hole (the one cut in the MDF) cut to the precise outside dimension (OD) of whatever you're using for a vent, or risk a sloppy fit. I have a set of Forstner bits, with a good selection of sizes, but I find that I often don't get a precise fit because the OD of the tubing or pipe, isn't the same as the standard bit sizes commonly available. I have a spindle sander, so I guess I could get a good fit -- hmmmm. But then I'd be a little concerned about getting epoxy on the veneer when I installed the vent tube. Also, at the point where I'm at on the veneer learning curve, I'm not certain I could avoid the tear out problem when trimming the veneer to the port hole size. The process I described above, is intended to allow sanding the port hole in the veneer to a precise fit while confining the roundover cut to the plastic port tube. Sanding has produced the most accurate and tear-out free results, so far.

But, I'll have to admit, the method you suggest might work well, or even be better. I'll know pretty soon -- I've got the parts either ordered or accumulated for a Cerebus sub, a set of Aviatrix MLTL's, a set of the Nano NTN's, and Mark Miller's Duellatis.

Thanks for the suggestion Lee -- I'm sure there will be builders who find your process a better way to go.

[Mikers]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Yes I think you could, but you'd have to have the first hole (the one cut in the MDF) cut to the precise outside dimension (OD) of whatever you're using for a vent, or risk a sloppy fit. I have a set of Forstner bits, with a good selection of sizes, but I find that I often don't get a precise fit because the OD of the tubing or pipe, isn't the same as the standard bit sizes commonly available. I have a spindle sander, so I guess I could get a good fit -- hmmmm. But then I'd be a little concerned about getting epoxy on the veneer when I installed the vent tube. Also, at the point where I'm at on the veneer learning curve, I'm not certain I could avoid the tear out problem when trimming the veneer to the port hole size. The process I described above, is intended to allow sanding the port hole in the veneer to a precise fit while confining the roundover cut to the plastic port tube. Sanding has produced the most accurate and tear-out free results, so far.

But, I'll have to admit, the method you suggest might work well, or even be better. I'll know pretty soon -- I've got the parts either ordered or accumulated for a Cerebus sub, a set of Aviatrix MLTL's, a set of the Nano NTN's, and Mark Miller's Duellatis.

Thanks for the suggestion Lee -- I'm sure there will be builders who find your process a better way to go.

Why not build your ports like I did in my 3.1 build but reserve the final port hole/round over for after the veneer is applied. So, you would counter sink the port hole, epoxy in the port tube but you wouldn't cut the final hole to the outside until the veneer is done. This would allow you to veneer right over the hole on a flat surface. Once the veneer is done use your flush trim rounter bit to router out the ID of the port. If desired you could then use a roundover bit and flush the port to the outside surface. Try it on some scap and let us know

[Soundslike]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

...allow you to veneer right over the hole on a flat surface.

If I recall correctly, you bored a recess in the back panel (as shown in the upper left diagram below) and then glued your port tubes in the recess as shown in the lower left diagram (below). That would be followed by flush trimming as shown in the upper right diagram, which produces a correctly sized, but straight opening through the MDF. The port could be left straight, or rounded over as shown in the lower right diagram.

That might be a better process -- you could, for instance, use a larger radius round-over bit to produce a more-pronounced flare. But, that would mean the veneer will be cut at an angle, just as it was with mine (shown in the photo above). That's what caused the less than ideal cut (tear-out and splintering).

Leaving the port opening unflared is probably not a bad option either -- I suspect the little flare is entirely cosmetic. I'll do a little experimenting as you suggest. Thanks for the comment..

[Mikers]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

If I recall correctly, you bored a recess in the back panel (as shown in the upper left diagram below) and then glued your port tubes in the recess as shown in the lower left diagram (below). That would be followed by flush trimming as shown in the upper right diagram, which produces a correctly sized, but straight opening through the MDF. The port could be left straight, or rounded over as shown in the lower right diagram.

That might be a better process -- you could, for instance, use a larger radius round-over bit to produce a more-pronounced flare. But, that would mean the veneer will be cut at an angle, just as it was with mine (shown in the photo above). That's what caused the less than ideal cut (tear-out and splintering).

Leaving the port opening unflared is probably not a bad option either -- I suspect the little flare is entirely cosmetic. I'll do a little experimenting as you suggest. Thanks for the comment..

Wow, nice drawings. Yes, this is the process. I don't know how veneer reacts. You could stick your bit out a little further so it cuts in square before it cuts the radius. This might possibly give you a getter edge on the veneer and also gets you the rounded look. (edit, actually try this, it will make painting it easier too) or just do the easy thing and buy a premade port... but really, who wants to do that? I'd mock up a few on a scrap and veneer it then do some cutouts to see what works best.

[Leroy R]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Do you have any pictures of the crossovers after they were installed in the enclosures.

[Soundslike]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

I didn't take any photos of the board inside the enclosures, but I can if you need one. Shouldn't take but a minute to remove the driver, if you want it.

[Leroy R]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Would have been nice to see if you had it, but you don't need to pull it apart to take one now. I was just curious how tight the fit was.

[Soundslike]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Lee,

Here's a drawing that shows the relative sizes of the enclosure and the boards I made, and where I placed them. Not much room in there, so you'll probably want to keep things compact. Hope this helps...


Ron

[cwad8505]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Lee,

Here's a drawing that shows the relative sizes of the enclosure and the boards I made, and where I placed them. Not much room in there, so you'll probably want to keep things compact. Hope this helps...


Ron

Ron,
You are killing me with these drawings at the drop of a hat! I don't know what kind of super program you are using.. or where you find the time.. but you turn out the most incredible drawings in no time.. for everything! I love it.. just wish I had the know how.. and time.. and patience..and whatever else I don't posess that will not allow me to post drawings like that.. lol
Chris

[Soundslike]

Re: Overnight Sensation Build -- Two Sets

Chris,

Thanks for the nice compliment. I like to draw, and find it the best way to explain a point. I've been using the same drawing programs for years (we're talking as much as 15 years here) so it doesn't take me long to knock something out. I'm going to be forced to upgrade -- these older programs don't get along too well with Windows 7. I have TurboCad and Coreldraw, but I've been resisting because it will take a while to get to the same level of efficiency I have with the older programs. I will be able to produce better looking drawings though, so I'll be changing over in the not too distant future.

Thanks again -- you've made my day.

Ron