Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

[kenmcculloch]

Got one in working order to listen. Nine 5" Sony's and one compression dome driver in a waveguide/horn. These sound awesome but will have to pad down the tweeter horn a bit.

I'm just using a stock Klispch xover at 2.3khz (I think) for now. The movable hinged wings need more finish. Last night one of them things was so loud you would only to to 12 on the dial of an old Kenwood KR3400 18 wpc receiver. Clear as a bell. Need subwoofer to fill out bottom end but the sound is open and not compressed at all.

I used birdseye maple veneer for the soundboard with solid sapele sides, mahogany veneer wings, and walnut burl top and bottom accent pieces. Can't wait to get the other one finished and hear the pair with some good vocals.

[johnnyrichards]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

That is awesome, Ken. That tweeter looks quite the animal.

[kenmcculloch]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

Thanks Johnny. I think the horn was a PE part but can't find the number now. Needs a little taming on the volume - probably will use resistors or lpad. Had a couple of comp drivers (Pyle I think) laying around and they do the job nicely.

[bkeane1259]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

Those look great....It’s nice to finally see some designs with this $0.97 driver…LOL.
A couple questions:

I see that you have the array basically in a corner. Have you tried a couple different listening positions for it? What would you reckon is the best positioning for something like this?

Also - you caulked the Sony frames pretty heavily. Did you happen to do a before/after comparison? I am using strips of a Dynamat material to damp the frames on mine. They are rather thin, aren't they?

[2leftthumbs]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

I like it!

[bkeane1259]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

OH.....great idea painting the Sony frames....they are definitely NOT attractive.

[Soundslike]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

Is that Duxseal on the driver frames? Looks like it ought to do the job. Pretty fascinating build you have here. The concave baffle is unique -- thanks for the link you provided elsewhere. I'm impressed with your ability to turn these high quality, complex builds out. Anxious to hear more about your listening impressions...

[kenmcculloch]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

Thanks guys. I used standard rope caulk from Home Depot on the frames and didn't do before/after test. However, I haven't heard any basket ringing yet. I only have one in playing shape right now and have pushed it with the 18wpc Kenwood amp to 12 noon and it is LOUD. The painting of these is much easier than the 4" Pioneer NSB's from a few years back. I used a plastic screw on lid from a "3 Quart Canister) I got at Dollar Tree. (See below photo). BTW - ask them how much they are!!! They always look at me funny when I do that. Fits exactly over the cone and then hit is with truck bed liner (sticks better to metal than black lacquer or spray paint).

I tried to reorder 150 more yesterday but was about 1 minute too slow. I did get the last 13 I was told. My first order of 32 didn't have the foam gasket so I used rope caulk to seal.

Since my wife doesn't let my speakers in our house (!) I have a single buddy that lets me listen to them at his place. I started with them about 3 feet from the wall/corner and they sounded great. I moved them into the corner last night and notice and increase in the low end. Still clear but more bass. I've seen where some people put them 6-8 feet away from rear wall to prevent "echo" but I haven't noticed that problem. Most people can't put them that far out in a room. They are not real pretty from the rear side.

The Klipsch stock xover I'm using now is supposed to be 2600Hz xover. I need to pad down the tweeter a little. Hooked up an EQ to them last night and about 3 db padding (the tweeter has a 4 ohm resistor in series to the tweeter) seems to do the trick.

I need to build a portable brace on the front so they don't fall forward. The wings are 11" wide and overall height is 71". Easy to carry since they fold.

[Randall Kepley]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

Man that looks pretty cool! R.K.

[kenmcculloch]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

They are finished!!! (Kinda). Still need a few more coats of poly on the wings and to clean up the wiring a bit. They sound awesome. I have them running through a powered sub with xover at around 80 Hz and man are they clean. 2600Hz xover to the horn tweeter. Vocals are outstanding. Using an 18wpc old Kenwood amp for now and they are plenty loud. Can't go past 12 o'clock on volume. May need to buy more of these if anyone on forum has extra.

[bkeane1259]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

Very nice job on those -- wish I had the room for something like that.

[nose]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

Very nice job on those -- wish I had the room for something like that.

There is always room in my house for more speakers, the bigger the better !

Nice job on those. I love line arrays and was hoping to get some of those sony's myself but damned if they didn't already run out!

[Binary110]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-fullrange/aurasound-ns525-255-8a-5.25-paper-cone-8-ohm/

I have a feeling that these would likely do just as well, if not better than the sony speaker, and theyre still readily available.

This is a very interesting design.

One quick question, Does it sound like a really loud cheap speaker? or does it cover the dynamics better than you'd expect for a $1 woofer? also, due to spacing, you wouldnt want to cross over as high as you are if possible. At 6" apart you're looking at a comb filtering effect around 2300-2500hz, By mounting the drivers closer together, you'd offset that, or you can cross over lower, but thats based on how the tweeter will handle it.

I'd recommend also getting a minidsp or a behinger DCX2496 and going active, so you can control the tweeter without a stupid amount of crossover parts, and you will keep phase coherence.

Given the fact that its impressively loud with 18wpc. Why not run this off a couple T-amps and get it rediculously clean?

Edit: Why do you have 9 woofers total? you should be running even on top and below the tweeter. also, if you had made the woofers touch, you would have the room for the 10th woofer without making the cabinet taller. maybe 1" max.

[kenmcculloch]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

Good questions and points. It sounds very smooth, clean and detailed. My buddy says he's never heard such good vocals. They don't seem strained at all. I plan to hook up to a better amp but had this one handy at my buddy's house where they currently reside.

This was sort of an experiment on the curved front. I wanted to have plenty of strength in the 3 separate front boards which were necessary to get the 5 degree top and bottom tilt so I gave a little extra spacing. I used 9 to keep it simple on wiring to get 8 ohm impedance. I thought about using 8 with the tweeter centered but decided not to. I have separate amp and electronic crossover to biamp and may do so to check out different xover points. The Dayton 6" Waveguide is used (PE 260-306, discontinued I think) with a lowest frequency of 2,500Hz. I may have to switch to a Klipsch 6 3/4" square tractrix horn which I have which will should get me down to 1,500Hz. I can change to a larger lower range driver (PAudio BMD440).

Let me know your thoughts on this setup. Beats cutting 20 more holes!!!

[Binary110]

Re: Sony 5" Buyout Curved Line Array

Well, i didn't want to criticize too much, but i have been working on a line array design of my own for a while, and its a bit of a different beast. You don't have a true line array as far as a cylindrical wave form is concerned. But thats because you've got a single tweeter in the center. You've also done somewhat of the opposite of what a line array attempts to acheive, which is an even dispersion of sound across all heights, thus allowing better throw distances, and the ability to cover more people at once, (the hifi line array is different than a concert one, but the principals are the same) By curving inwards, you are creating a fixed focus "sweet spot" which will sound fantastic if you do all your listening alone. But with others in the room, it will sound best at the so called "sweet spot"

You honestly don't need a standard 8 ohm load, in fact, netting 6 ohm is pretty standard, and most recievers can handle a 4 ohm load as long as it doesn't dip too low. You are better to get an even wave front from using an equal number of drivers on top and below the tweeter.

Also, the little lips you have at the top and bottom of the array are detrimental to the sound, They will cause a reflection and a wierd baffle interaction, you're best to have the edges flat.

You might also want to put the speakers in a slightly undersized box, and use some eq to bring out the low end, if they have enough workable xmax. Active crossover is a must, and lowering the x-over point to under 2khz is desireable. It will eliminate almost all comb filtering effects. Use a high order filter for the 2khz crossover.

I hope this isn't too much to consider, i really like where you are going with this, but if you've only built one, you can build the second one with a few changes, and decide for yourself which you like more/sounds better.

Cheers