Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

[F-Train]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

Excellent, thank you. I have all of the driver parts on hand now and look forward to putting it together.

[djhamp]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

Tyger, I was wondering what an 8 ohm version needs. I know this time of year you're swamped, but an 8 ohm version is what I need. Please keep us informed on your progress. I'm VERY curious how the new RS-150P might work in your design.

I am interested in this as well,I already have the RS150S 8 ohm and the tweeters - it would be nice to put them to use!

[kevintomb]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

Great build!

Looking forward to seeing other's build it also.

One question to the OP though, how did you do the recesses around the drivers?

They look nearly perfect!

[tyger23]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

Great build!

Looking forward to seeing other's build it also.

One question to the OP though, how did you do the recesses around the drivers?

They look nearly perfect!

Jasper circle jigs are your friend ;). That and quite a bit of math and patience to get it right.

I was working on the 8 ohm version of these yesterday and screwed up a baffle because I wasn't patient enough. Oh well - it's just wood.

[kevintomb]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

Jasper circle jigs are your friend ;). That and quite a bit of math and patience to get it right.

I was working on the 8 ohm version of these yesterday and screwed up a baffle because I wasn't patient enough. Oh well - it's just wood.

Thanks!

I have found, my biggest weakness, is rushing, not being patient, and worrying about how long I make a lot of noise with router (( neighbors etc))

As Soon as I was able to relax and quit caring about how long it took and noise or not, most of my stuff turned out a lot better!

I am in the process of making my own circle jig. So far it seems doable.

[kevintomb]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

Jasper circle jigs are your friend ;). That and quite a bit of math and patience to get it right.

I was working on the 8 ohm version of these yesterday and screwed up a baffle because I wasn't patient enough. Oh well - it's just wood.

Thanks!

I have found, my biggest weakness, is rushing, not being patient, and worrying about how long I make a lot of noise with router (( neighbors etc))

As Soon as I was able to relax and quit caring about how long it took and noise or not, most of my stuff turned out a lot better!

I am in the process of making my own circle jig. So far it seems doable.

[johnastockman]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

I know about that too. I still have a pair of speakers, Curt's TriTrix 2-way in .25 ft3 ported, in raw MDF. Because I was so impatient to hear how they stacked up with a couple OEM bookshelf 2-ways that showed up here and to some of my previous DIY 2-way designs. I had two guys want me to finish them so they could listen to them next to their retail speakers. My abilities to work in the shop have been severely reduced since last summer, so I put off the final finishing and let those guys hear the differences. One pair was a newer Polk, about .5-.6 ft3, the RTiA3, IIRC. It had the little port right below the woofer; woofer is a 6.5". Another was an older Boston Acoustics 2-way of about the same size. I'm going to have to finish them soon, as the Polk guy wanted to take them home that day, even in bare MDF. The various aspects of SQ we all talk about, and the ones I note are the hallmarks of a well-designed XO and solid cabinet construction, were immediately noticeable between the TriTrix and the Polk. Even though the TriTrix uses the 5.25" woofer, the bass quality was, hmm, a bit lower and sounded more controlled. Hard to find the right words to describe the overall bass performance, but the Polk sounded a little more muddled. Not saying they sounded bad, as we listened for a while w/o any side-by-side impressions, and at $400/pr, probably many would be satisfied. The imaging was not as defined with the Polk, and the soundfield had a confined quality to it. Going between the TriTrix, you could hear the imaging and soundfield open up noticeably. The older BA didn't fair too well at all, and the enclosures were quite cheap...looked like 1/2" material at best. Gave a tinny/ringing quality to the sound.

Anyway, a homemade jig works great too. Make sure you have the drivers in-hand and take your own measurements before you commit to the recesses and cut-outs. I used the published dimensions on one of my first builds from the forum for the recess diameter/depth, and it was off 1/16". So always take your own. A pair of calipers helped me out a lot. I got these from Harbor Freight about 15 years ago and they're still working fine.



Or any calipers that have enough capacity to measure the frame/flange diameter would work. Even a homemade "story" stick of some kind can help set up your jig for the recess diameter. Lots of homemade solutions can be done/made so you don't have to spend money on tools. Practice on some scrap with your jig so you get a feel for it and how close it'll be to the measurement you need. I have an old Ryobi 160 fixed-base router with the Jasper Jig and it took a bit of practice to find out how accurate it was and what small adjustments I needed to do so it would cut an accurate recess diameter.


John A.

[tyger23]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

After many, many months, I can finally clear my throat, put on my doctor Frankenstein voice, and proclaim "It's alive!"



Well, sort of.

The 8-ohm version Arias are built (one of them at least) and ready for measurements and crossover design!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QuoKNZjr8_U

[biscuitbarrell]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

MMMMMMOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE (please)

[tyger23]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

MMMMMMOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE (please)

You're in luck... I finished the crossover and measurements today. I'll post it tomorrow.

[tyger23]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

Well, it took many, many moons, but I finally finished. Apparently, one of my speakers (the one I was trying to tune the crossover with) was bad, and I didn't realize it. So, whenever I had time to tune the crossover - I struggled to get it right. It just never seemed to sound right, and now I know that was because of a bum RS150-8.

Since I swapped in another RS150, things went much smoother.

My goal for the Aria-8 (the 8-ohm version) was to maintain the exact same tweeter crossover and only adjust the woofer crossover and tweeter attenuation (to match the less-sensitive 8-ohm woofer). I think I've accomplished my goals. Nothing else changes about the design - the box dimensions and construction were all the same. So, here it is:


I'll note that I used all Erse components in this crossover, and I called out those components specifically in my drawing. However, that is by no means the only components that could be used. Maintaining the values is the most important factor. The DCR of the inductors could be slightly different, the voltage rating of the caps could be slightly different, etc... I just wanted to post exactly what I used.

I'll post the measurements in a bit.

[upsman]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

tyger23, is the RS150S-8 close enough to be used in place of the RS150-8.........some say they are inter-changeable....any thoughts..

[tyger23]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

tyger23, is the RS150S-8 close enough to be used in place of the RS150-8.........some say they are inter-changeable....any thoughts..

From what I've read, I agree - it should drop in just fine. However, others may have a more valid opinion. I can only base mine on what I've read - I've never used the RS150S-8.

[tyger23]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

Here's the response and the impedance/phase for the 8-ohm version. The response was taken relatively close to the speaker (12" or so) to try and avoid the nasty room reflections I was getting. The main negative to this is that the reverse null isn't as deep when the mic is close to the speaker. Back up to 1M and the reverse null becomes about -30dB. Also, the normal phase response shows a slight dip near the crossover region, but the response is far flatter when you back up.



The phase/impedance. This shows the box tuning right around 48Hz (as in the 4-ohm version) and the phase stays between the 40's with the exception of 100Hz and 2K.

[F-Train]

Re: Introducing The Arias - my Black Box design. RS150-4 + XT25SC90-04

Ty,
How do the 8-ohms sound compared to the 4-ohms? If they're nearly the same then they should sound amazing.
I built (partially) your 4-ohm version and even with the the baffles just clamped on they really sound incredible. I should have them finished pretty soon and post a build thread.
At first my wife didn't want anything this size in the office she decorated, but after hearing them she quickly changed her mind.
Thanks for your work on these-