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The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

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  • #16
    Re: The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

    I almost went with that Peerless in my taking-forever design.
    Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

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    • #17
      Re: The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

      Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
      What made you decide to go with the Peerless? I'm not knocking your choice, just wondering what design decisions you were making. I looked at that woofer but it didn't play low enough for me. I also looked at the B4n and the 4" TB in the Speedster. Someone else already used the TB 4" driver and it was also quite a bit more expensive than the other drivers I looked at. The B4n is cheap, but the ND105 looks better and plays just a bit lower, albeit in a slightly larger enclosure. For me it came down to how low it could play coupled with the huge xmech and the price (it was on sale for $18 when I got them).

      I didn't do extensive modeling, but here's what I got for 3 Liters with a 2 dB "bump"

      driver F3 F6
      830855 61 52
      Hivi B4N 59 50
      ND105 57 46

      Hmm, maybe I should go with the ND105? My project is not "set in stone"
      I'd already built a Speedster clone (diff tweeter), and I love that woofer, but didn't want to drop $50 a piece for this project.
      It's fun having these kind of "what if" discussions.

      I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
      "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

      High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
      SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
      My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

      Tangband W6-sub

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      • #18
        Re: The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

        Originally posted by donradick View Post
        I didn't do extensive modeling, but here's what I got for 3 Liters with a 2 dB "bump"

        driver F3 F6
        830855 61 52
        Hivi B4N 59 50
        ND105 57 46

        Hmm, maybe I should go with the ND105? My project is not "set in stone"
        I'd already built a Speedster clone (diff tweeter), and I love that woofer, but didn't want to drop $50 a piece for this project.
        It's fun having these kind of "what if" discussions.
        Ah, you are going much smaller than me. I'm at about 7.3L for mine, which will start to make much bigger difference in the low end.

        Yeah, I kinda felt the same way about the TB driver. This was meant to be a small budget 3-way and that woofer started pushing the price up more than I wanted.
        -Kerry

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        • #19
          Re: The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

          Originally posted by donradick View Post
          I didn't do extensive modeling, but here's what I got for 3 Liters with a 2 dB "bump"

          driver F3 F6
          830855 61 52
          Hivi B4N 59 50
          ND105 57 46

          Hmm, maybe I should go with the ND105? My project is not "set in stone"
          I'd already built a Speedster clone (diff tweeter), and I love that woofer, but didn't want to drop $50 a piece for this project.
          It's fun having these kind of "what if" discussions.
          Personally, I've heard 3 or 4 variants of the Peerless SDS (same frame and cone, different motor), and I've always been pleased with what they offered. To me, the ND series sounds a bit muddy/flabby in most I've auditioned. The SDS sounds better to me, but it is more expensive too. Peerless knows how to do bass well, and have for a very long time.

          Don- 5-6 Hz is a wash. I'd stay where you're headed.

          Later,
          Wolf
          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

          *InDIYana event website*

          Photobucket pages:
          https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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          • #20
            Re: The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

            Originally posted by Wolf View Post
            Personally, I've heard 3 or 4 variants of the Peerless SDS (same frame and cone, different motor), and I've always been pleased with what they offered. To me, the ND series sounds a bit muddy/flabby in most I've auditioned. The SDS sounds better to me, but it is more expensive too. Peerless knows how to do bass well, and have for a very long time.

            Don- 5-6 Hz is a wash. I'd stay where you're headed.

            Later,
            Wolf

            Thanks Wolf!
            Once I built the Overnight Sensations and a ND90 boombox, I knew that low 50s, high 40s with "authority" sounded pretty darn good,
            so I felt that the Peerless was worth a try. Never worked with those before.

            Kerry - if I build these, we'll have to get together and play 'em side by side!

            I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
            "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

            High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
            SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
            My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

            Tangband W6-sub

            Comment


            • #21
              The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

              Originally posted by Wolf View Post
              Personally, I've heard 3 or 4 variants of the Peerless SDS (same frame and cone, different motor), and I've always been pleased with what they offered. To me, the ND series sounds a bit muddy/flabby in most I've auditioned. The SDS sounds better to me, but it is more expensive too. Peerless knows how to do bass well, and have for a very long time.

              Don- 5-6 Hz is a wash. I'd stay where you're headed.

              Later,
              Wolf
              Wolf, I definitely agree that the ND105 is not the cleanest bass I have ever heard. I wouldn't necessarily call it muddy or flabby. I've definitely heard a LOT worse. The ND105 is a higher distortion driver than the other two in this speaker, and you can hear that to some degree. Bass notes are just a little less defined than I like, but I'm a neurotic about these things. I would say "fuzzy" is how I would describe it. I do think that crossing it low in a 3 way helps, as you don't hear as much of the harmonics being produced by the ND105. The TC9 picks some of those up. I will say that I don't think the "fuzzy" bass detracts in any way from how enjoyable this speaker is to listen to, especially when you hear the midrange and how low they play. I think most people would be very happy with them given the price and how much they do well. Honestly I think that the definition of the bass is the only thing they don't do well

              I've never heard the SDS series to compare, only the HDS series, which isn't really a fair comparison based on the price. However, I wanted something that dug deeper than the SDS since, in the end, these will be mainly used in my bedroom for TV without a sub.
              Last edited by Navy Guy; 12-02-2014, 09:15 AM.
              -Kerry

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              • #22
                Re: The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

                Originally posted by donradick View Post

                Kerry - if I build these, we'll have to get together and play 'em side by side!
                I would love to put them side by side and hear the difference!
                Last edited by Navy Guy; 12-02-2014, 09:16 AM.
                -Kerry

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                • #23
                  Re: The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

                  Navy Guy, when I saw the name of your build thread I thought it was "The Angst Protocol". I noticed at the top of the second page that I had read it wrong. Maybe that can be the name of one of your future builds.

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                  • #24
                    Re: The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

                    Originally posted by UnfitNitwit View Post
                    Navy Guy, when I saw the name of your build thread I thought it was "The Angst Protocol". I noticed at the top of the second page that I had read it wrong. Maybe that can be the name of one of your future builds.
                    I'm not quite sure I get the reference (assuming there is one). I googled it and I'm getting a bunch of sites in German?
                    -Kerry

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: The Against Protocol 3-way (AP3)

                      I just misread the title. Doubt it means anything. I thought it was strange name and thought maybe the build caused you angst, and the build was the protocol of how it caused your angst.

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