Dayton Clasic Revival - 2015 Build

[brial05]

Greetings to Everyone and Happy New Year!

First a special Thank you and recognition to Paul Carmody for all of his knowledge and contributions, as without him, none of this discussion could take place.

I've been a PE customer for years and have lurked the forum of the better part of the last two years in my quest to find my next 'reference' speaker.

My personal current reference speakers are a very old pair of Polk Audio Monitors that I bought back in college, circa 1989. In terms of gear, I've run some very old equipment but over the years I've cleaned out the house and only have a nice little NAD Integrated Amplifier that for me personally is the best.

My first DIY build was to be a pair of Murphy Blasters, but I found that sourcing the tweeter would be difficult.
I opted to build the Overnight Sensations and have been very impressed with how pleasing their sound has been.
I have 100s of hours put in listening to them and feel they only lack slightly in their Mid / Highs when I listen to them at distances greater than 8 ft, other wise I feel they are excellent.
Due to what is my perceived lack of upper end detail at distance, I find myself leaning back to my Polk Monitors.

I'm confident that 3 way TMW of the Dayton Classic Revival will fill the room nicely, including the upper end detail which I personally desire.

In terms of sourcing for this project, I began parts acquisition last May or so and unbeknownst to me, I ran into the Dayton #285-10 being out of production.
At the time, I simply thought PE was out of stock and a quick Google had me ordering them from Solen Electronique out of Canada.

I knew I was overpaying for them, but I had hoped to had these done to start the summer, so I payed ~ $115 US for the pair shipping included.

Project Totals:

From Parts-Express - $ 105 shipped - Cabinets Only
From Parts-Express - $ 181 shipped - All drivers (expect #285-10's), binding posts, Precision Port, Sonic Barrier
From Solen Electronique - $ 115 shipped - Dayton 2" Dome Midrange # 285-10
From Parts-Express - $ 111 shipped - All crossover electronics, wires, screws
From Wood Craft - $ 54 - Sauers & Company 24"x96" 10MIL Paper Backed Cherry Veneer, Glue, etc.

I am almost finished with the entire project and I will begin to post pictures of proceedings as soon as possible.

Cheers!

[brial05]

Re: Dayton Clasic Revival - 2015 Build

A few pictures regarding the cabinet construction ... CNC from PE was excellent, however I was surprised and somewhat disappointed with the routed baffle covers ..... but still I'm used the idea / look.

[brial05]

Re: Dayton Clasic Revival - 2015 Build

.... I thought to try Tite Bond's Cold Press for Veneers, it was a horrible experience!

After more than a day of very adequate press .... the veneer seemed wet / rippled. I did not over apply based upon my working with Tite Bond in the past ..... in giving the veneer the slightest tug, it just slid off completely.

I could not understand why the glue failed to adhere in even the slightest way and seemed to completely fail ...... Again with a quick Google, I found a thread or two complaining of the same issue with the same product and warning of product suspension fall out.
I always give new bottles a shake, upon trying to shake out this Tite Bond, it was not apparent that there would be any issue or concern, but a skewer into the bottle revealed otherwise.
I would say the bottom 6" of the bottle were complete MUD.

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Dayton Clasic Revival - 2015 Build

I've never used that product before. So what do you think was the issue, then? The product didn't mix thoroughly? I'm not blaming you at all, in fact I feel bad for you (though I've had my share of frustrations with veneer over the years too). I'm just trying to figure out what happened.

[fastbike1]

Re: Dayton Clasic Revival - 2015 Build

I've used the product before without problems. Some possibilities: 1) the bottle was too old, 2) the contents had frozen 3) Conditions too cold when you were trying to apply 4) combination of these.

[brial05]

Re: Dayton Clasic Revival - 2015 Build

Paul, fastbike1,

I thought I had mentioned, but in fact failed to mention .... the general consensus was product age and I will add today, IMO, improper mixing.
I had purchased from Wood Craft and they noted very little (if any) movement of that product from the shelves. The date code was believed to be that of 2011.

Product label notes to 'stir vigorously'. Again I always give a new bottle a good shake, but again, no where near enough to dislodge the pack of mud at the bottom of the bottle.

I went to my personal favorite .... Gel based contact cement. Zero issue, zero worry.

I had started with the bottoms on purpose, so my setback only cost me the fact that I would not have veneer on the bottoms, so no big worries and perhaps for the best long term.

Here you can see the finished veneers and my painting of the back of the cabinets in 'Black Out':

[weinstro]

Re: Dayton Clasic Revival - 2015 Build

.... I thought to try Tite Bond's Cold Press for Veneers, it was a horrible experience!

After more than a day of very adequate press .... the veneer seemed wet / rippled. I did not over apply based upon my working with Tite Bond in the past ..... in giving the veneer the slightest tug, it just slid off completely.

Huh. I never used that product, but did use regular old Tite-Bond glue and it worked quite well. I spread it out with a hard closed cell roller to get a consistent thickness, clamped with another larger panel, and never had a problem. I also tried the iron on methods and did not like the results at all.

[nikkoluvr]

Re: Dayton Clasic Revival - 2015 Build

I'll second fastbike on this glue. I've used Titebond coldpress many times with no issues, as well as the original Titebond (type 1). I can also recommend the veneer glue from "veneer supplies". It really sets up nice and hard, with minimal bleed through. If you have any more trouble, try that. I have not used contact cement, and do not plan to, although I know some folks like It quite a bit.
good luck,
nikkoluvr

[fastbike1]

Re: Dayton Clasic Revival - 2015 Build

To add, contact cement is generally not recommended for raw veneer. It can be a problem with bleed-through. I also use Veneer Supplies cold press glue exclusively now (http://www.veneersupplies.com/produc...or-Medium.html)

I'll second fastbike on this glue. I've used Titebond coldpress many times with no issues, as well as the original Titebond (type 1). I can also recommend the veneer glue from "veneer supplies". It really sets up nice and hard, with minimal bleed through. If you have any more trouble, try that. I have not used contact cement, and do not plan to, although I know some folks like It quite a bit.
good luck,
nikkoluvr

[brial05]

A Four Year Revival !

I was well on my way to finishing my Paul Carmody project when I last posted more than 4 years ago and then suddenly life just got in the way ...... moving / travel both work and personal / family. The end result being one cabinet I would see everyday stuffed in my closet, one cabinet I knew was in storage, cross-over parts all over the place because two where done with the rest of the parts in bags here and there ...... and the drivers I knew to all be in original boxes 'somewhere'.

Throw in a set of PSBs as a Christmas present a few years ago and four years seems to have been in the blink of an eye.

About a month ago I told myself 'finish those floor standings!' ..... took me a only just a few days to find everything. Soldering iron was the hardest to find in the end of it all.

The cabinets after looking back on them where terrible, they were on the way to being my best effort of wood work at the time and I seem to recall an issue with varnish ... ruined it all.
I told myself to just finish them up to look complete and get on with listening to them!

I started by finishing all the cross overs ......

Tweeter Cross Over:


........

[brial05]

Here is a look at my cabinets ... the light and photo flatters because up close you will find a million flaws. None the less they look really great from any normal distance.

In hindsight, I used a color at the time called 'Black Out' and I would not do so again, I would have been better off to match the flange of the Mid-Dome which looks completely normal in some light settings and completely weird in other light settings.

To be clear, the cabinets had been completely done and painted and varnished. One was in a state of having been lightly sanded and ready for another pass of varnish, so in terms of my work this month it was really just to dust them off and give them each another light coat of varnish.

First photo on the left here is four years old:



I went with a Precision Port as well as the Sonic Barrier, two sheet as I remember and I was able to line both nicely. I did not think through the location of the Precision Port vs. the Binding Posts. At the time I was worried about the depth of the speakers and port.
I zip tied the cross-overs to each of the support windows, that worked out real nicely.

[B King]

I use the Titebond cold press exclusively. It can ripple or bubble if you use too much or fail the spread it evenly with a roller. I've used it with a veneer bag and with clamps and cauls. with perfect results. It sounds like your glue was just too old. There was too much water in the glue you used. Mmost of the adhesive was probably in the sludge at the bottom of the bottle. And judging by the #3 pic of the bottom veneer, it wasn't spread evenly. Sediment doesn't build up and become sludge overnight.

[brial05]

Finally after four years .....



The lighting is bad and as I've mentioned the cabinet work is not the best but never mind all of that .... I've put in more than 100 hours of listening and I am truly amazed!

Time to throw out all the bookshelf speakers in the house ...

Over my listening what I am so pleased about is the low frequency response Paul has engeineered .... and what I enjoy most is this very pleasing response / sound at such low listening levels!

89 Hz @ just 38.8 decibels with the most pleasing sound I've ever experienced.
My meter tells and shows me I can get same from my other speakers around the house, PSBs included, but they all are missing something .. something that these Dayton Classic Revivals achieve so stunningly.



Cheers to Paul,

I know not all of the drivers have not been available for this build for a long time, I know I am not active on this board at all, I could have finished these speakers, kept to myself and been forever happy without saying / posting anything but .... I feel that would have been unfair ...... I wanted truly say Thank You Paul!

[djg]

Congratulations. These always seemed like a budget Zaph ZDT 3.5. And the word was IIRC, that the updated Dayton dome mid would be a drop in for the NLA one. I could be wrong.

[Wolf]

Yep, just RoHS and 3 holes to 4. Nicely done!
Wolf