Crossover Advice for my speakers

[SlowikPL]

Many months passed , and test been done on my XO and the final is here:

ACCUTON C30-6-024
ACCUTON C173-6-090
2x Seas L26RFX/P


I have some questions , if you have time I will appreciate if you have any time to answer those. Or maybe suggestions. New XO design for my speakers. Everybody suggest to change my XO from First order one to Second order XO) Because of the usage of 3 -way concept and the overlapping frequency on the first order XO. Everything is a closed box design.

I`m back from second order XO for the tweeter to first order XO. That sounds best for me.
I`m testing now for my C30-6-24 Accuton on Duelund CAST 8.2uF + 1uF and 0.01uF ( I have some spare Duelunds so I will test it more and add some more ) any advice ? )


I have also done some bypass 100kOhm on my caps and resistors, but this was nothing special. ( Sugestion fro Tony from Humble ) Maybe I will test it again later on. Have you any experiences on this ? Bypassing all with 100kOhm resistors on Caps and Resistors? Tony form humble site dit so to add some “peace, rest” to the sound.

I`m now buying 50uF Cast for my Middleton speaker ( so all will be Duelund: 54uF Cast + 40uF VSF). Tony from Humble have sayed to me to inverd the phase on my middleton speaker for beter frequence response. ( of couse if i wil go for seccond order XO for the tweeter ) ( but My Tweeter on seccond order XO was some kind restricted vs first order XO.)
Connect plus pole to min Pole. But for my taste the Bass slam is lost if I do this on my Speakers. So I left the Middleton speaker connected not in inverted phase. And Bass is now deep as i like it. Did you ever test it? ( see diagram )




I have also upgraded my internal cables with some Western Electric WE16GA.



My XO looks now like this :




In the red Box on the XO i have tested and this things dident sound good to me. ( Only did not tested on the Bass what is in the red box )


I`m missing some smoothness on my Tweeters and high-mids. The capacitors isen`t a issue ( i have Spare Mundorfs Supreme S/O , Audyn True Copper , Rike and so on ans on)

Now i`m using on the 3Ohm Path-Audio resistor ( have also tested Duelund CAST )
The 100K Ohm parallel on the tweeter cap was only for testing , now its not there anymore .

[peepaj]

Can you post graphs of your frequency response, so that members can see what you have. Also you can make your files available for members to help you out. With just a picture of your crossover it's about hopeless for anybody to help you.

[DanP]

Beautiful cabs, beautiful drivers, high end xo components. You've got all the right pieces, now you just have to make them dance. How was the current xo designed? As peepaj said, do you have measurements or was it all done by ear? You've basically got 1st order electrical for all drivers right now. It would be VERY difficult to make anything, let alone a 3-way, sound great like that.

Dan

[Paul Carmody]

Yeah, with hard cones like that, you're probably going to need some notch filters. Simply buying more expensive caps and resistors isn't going to address that problem.

[Wolf]

Something tells me the issue you hear in the tweeter is likely in the breakup of the midrange, BUT- the HP on the tweeter is effectively a 1st order because the 4.7 ohm resistor is a large value enough to reduce the effectiveness of the shunt coil in series with it. Try halving the resistor value first, but agreed that measurements are key to getting the best results with or without the premium parts.

Later,
Wolf

[SlowikPL]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input.
Unfortunately I don’t have any measurement instruments. My friend was only made the XO I thing by experience and all was 1^st order. ( without the red sque parts) It sounds ok , but i know that my speakers can do more with proper designed XO. First what I’m willing to test is to put a zobel on tweeter 1uF and 6.8 Ohm and add my new 50uF Duelund Cast capacitor on the mids. Everything on 1st order concept.

My other friend Tony Gee was designed my XO ( with the red square parts ) , but that was a disaster sound. A gap between high and mid. Plus a reduced mid-bass.

I found this on the net : http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jenzen-....htm#Crossover

Maybe i can make some adjustments and go for it ?

With only adjustments in series resistor for the Midds because of the efficiency of this 173-6-90 and also the breaking point on the lower frequencies by make 88uF to 94uF. And on tweeter remove the resistor R1031?! I have I think very Hi-End components to make this kind of 2nd order XO. Maybe I have to buy some resistors and inductors. But his will be not a problem I think.

[DanP]

Where do you live? You owe it to those drivers and cabinets to have them measured to design a crossover that will integrate them well. You can guess all day long at what single high-end cap would "sound best" on that tweeter, or someone competent could measure the drivers in those cabs and, in the course of an afternoon, design a circuit for that tweeter that allowed it to roll off smoothly, ready to transition to the mid (and at the perfect SPL to match the mid). Same for all the other drivers. You've got several thousand dollars wrapped up there, I'm sure. Take it the rest of the way and have a system that most of us would die for, instead of the one you have now, which most of us probably wouldn't listen to.

Dan

[SlowikPL]

Hi Dan ,

Thanks for the advice. Im living in Wroclaw ( that`s in Poland )and I’m already searching for somebody to measure my speakers at my home because of the weight 100KG / speaker.
The speakers are not sounding very bad, I compared those to many brands like Avalon , B&W , Audio Phisics , some other speakers that costs many good cars. So the results I’m expecting from my speakers are high.
Kind regards,
Robert

[Chris Roemer]

Here's my XO suggestion -
2nd order HP w/L-pad: 5uF series cap, 1.0mH shunt coil (higher DCR OK), L-pad: series 5ohms, parallel 5ohms

2nd order BandPass w/"L": 1.2mH series coil, 22uF series cap, (2 shunts) 4uF cap, also - 4.0mH shunt coil, L-pad: SR = 6ohms, PR = 4ohms

"tanked" 2nd order LP for parallelled Seas woofers: 5mH low DCR series coil, 120uF shunt cap, a teeny 0.22uF (notch) cap needs to parallel the 5.0mH series coil.

Fcs near 450Hz and 2.3kHz. Normally, only the mid would be connected reverse polarity.

[Psycoacoustics]

You'd do well if you took Chris's advice.

Good luck! Mark

[SlowikPL]

I will definitely take his advice. I already asked for PM for the drawing of his XO concept. Because my language and XO building knowledge is limited.Only correct if I'm wrong. I have to do this with my already 1st order from post nor 1?

[Chris Roemer]

Off you go.

[SlowikPL]

I did a sim on BoxSim this XO , :

There it is : http://www.filedropper.com/accutonspeakers2ndorder

A problem in 3kHz area!? Or incorrect data in the file.



I know I did something wrong with this C30-06-24 spec.

[Chris Roemer]

If that's MY xo, show us your raw tweeter plot? (Don't think I know "BoxSim".)

[SlowikPL]

I Think i made fault : Now looks better! By default the driver setting was : start from 2x Fc ( that cause the deformation. ) parallel


What I can do is first step Change polarity on my C173-06-090 and make little adjustments. My C173-06-090 was according my simulation doing very little se below:



















I have those Capacitors Values :

Duelund VSF 1uF	1
Duelund VSF 1uF	1
Duelund CAST 1	1
Duelund CAST 1	1
Duelund CAST 1,5	1,5
Duelund CAST 1,5	1,5
Duelund CAST 2,2	2,2
Duelund CAST 2,2	2,2
Duelund VSF 2,2	2,2
Duelund VSF 2,2	2,2
Duelund CAST 3,3	3,3
Duelund CAST 3,3	3,3
Duelund CAST 3,3	3,3
Duelund CAST 3,3	3,3
Duelund CAST 3,3	3,3
Duelund CAST 3,3	3,3
Duelund CAST 4,7	4,7
Duelund CAST 4,7	4,7
Duelund VSF 6,8uF	6,8
Duelund VSF 6,8uF	6,8
Duelund VSF 6,8uF	6,8
Duelund VSF 6,8uF	6,8
Duelund VSF 6,8uF	6,8
Duelund VSF 6,8uF	6,8
Duelund CAST 6,8uF	6,8
Duelund CAST 6,8uF	6,8
Duelund CAST 8,2uF	8,2
Duelund CAST 8,2uF	8,2
Duelund VSF 10uF	10
Duelund VSF 10uF	10
Duelund VSF 24uF	24
Duelund VSF 24uF	24
Duelund VSF 40uF	40
Duelund VSF 40uF	40
Duelund CAST 50	50
Duelund CAST 50	50