InDIYana 2016 write up

[dlneubec]

Are there going to be write-ups on individual designs ? The "Scimitars" and Ani's 15" series II would be interesting to check out !
donc

Don, The Scimitars are posted in the project gallery here: (whoops, I see Wolf beat me to it!)

[DearSX]

Now I cannot guarantee that it works for all cases. I can see why some types might work better for certain drivers, as it's pretty much the same for capacitors. However- I think the coils were easier to discern.

Later,
Wolf

Right, I will see how much they cost, see what others what done and think about it before I take the plunge. Thank you Wolf!

[Paul Ebert]

Perhaps a stupid question... but who sells litz inductors?

[Wolf]

Solen sells Heptalitz (7 twisted strands) inductors, and I ordered them from Solen through Meniscus.
I could not see doing the test bed without them. They are more costly than the standard air-core types, but less costly than foils.

Later,
Wolf

[lct0221]

I'm really interesting in Testarossa kit with PR,

Don't see folks share much impression about it, What do guys like or dislike Testarossa?

[Wolf]

The Testarossa bass range did not sound optimal in the ballroom. At Jeff's home, it is a very smooth bass all the way down. I will also say they sounded better in the treble at the InDIYana show than I recall hearing at his home. For whatever reasons, I don't know.

Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

...for that matter, coil-rig test aside, I haven't seen one comment on the forum about my Cecropia project as a whole either. Let me just say I was listening at home, and I feel like these are a home run. They thunder when required. They have space and air as needed. They are detailed like I prefer. To be honest, I had a very emotional song playing the other day, and I couldn't control myself. That hasn't happened since the Attitudes in 2010.

At the show...
Seth said he really liked the detail of the tweeter, that he had not heard a TL before, and that he does not normally find himself commenting on how much he likes the treble range.
JasonP said he really thought they were the best in the Widebody comp, as bass extension is not that important to him, and they had the best mids and highs in the bunch. He also said they are better than my Nephila, at which I agreed.
DanN said he really liked the mids and highs, but since they complained on the Patricia Barber cut the nod went to Chuck.
DanP said he really liked the form factor of the build, and the shape.

Depending on opinion of weight in several factors, the challenge could have gone any direction, with Cecropia and Indium7 getting 4 votes a piece, and Chuck getting the larger majority.

I would like to hear more opinions if any would like to share.

Later,
Wolf

[dlneubec]

I would like to hear more opinions if any would like to share.

Later,
Wolf

I will take a shot at it. I liked them..... a lot. They were right up there with the best of em. I'm not certain that many woofers and tweeters would be low enough distortion and resolving enough to be able to so readily hear the differences in the coil-rig test. I would not be surprised to see them in the winner's circle at MWAF. My audio memory is not good enough to compare them to the Nephila or Attitudes, though I would tend to the think the Attitudes would win in an all-out, not holds barred, full range competition. They would not have had issues with that PB piece. At MWAF, though, you are not likely to have them pushed that hard or with that demanding a piece, but for the widebody's, since that PB piece uncovered some limitations of the Morel, personally I simply could not, in fair mindedness, ignore that aspect. Therein lies the problem with comparing speakers. How do you do it fairly? There are so many factors, like spl, music, room, position in room and so on.

The one thing I noticed and have noticed before, just my opinion mind you, that really wide baffles seem to lose depth in the soundfield. Compared to most of the narrower speakers, all the competitors sounded like the image was very flat with a noticeable lack of depth. It makes sense in that due to wavelengths, the wide speakers stay in 2pi space to a much lower frequency, so there is a lot less off axis relfected energy. On the other hand, that might make them much better than narrower speakers when placed near the front wall, so again it could depend on how they are intended to be used. Another reason why the Attitudes or Nephila's might win in a head to head, assuming you are paying attention to soundstage depth and character, etc.

As for the BW3 and LR4 comparison, it was certainly dependent on the music. At times the LR4 sounded dead in comparison to the BW3 and at other times the BW3 was had a bit too much presence. Still, i found the BW3 more likely to draw me into the music, and just seemed to sound more real with some pieces.

[Wolf]

I agree that the 'Tudes are still better than the Nephila and Cecropia, and that it's an awfully high bar to surpass. I also agree that the Cecropia drivers are really high resolution, and it's one of the reasons I picked this design to do this. The 'Tudes are only about 2" narrower than the Cecropia, and are a somewhat 'widebody' themselves due to the half-rounds. I totally understand why you voted as you did, and I would've likely done the same had I voted.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Wolf

[craigk]

I agree that the 'Tudes are still better than the Nephila and Cecropia, and that it's an awfully high bar to surpass. I also agree that the Cecropia drivers are really high resolution, and it's one of the reasons I picked this design to do this. The 'Tudes are only about 2" narrower than the Cecropia, and are a somewhat 'widebody' themselves due to the half-rounds. I totally understand why you voted as you did, and I would've likely done the same had I voted. Thanks for your thoughts, Wolf

I thought they were very detailed, maybe just a touch bright. The other wide bodies had a slight warmth / congested sound in the mid range. Your speakers did not, which was nice. This is also a product of wide baffles. My biggest issue is with the Morel woofer, and I am a big Morel fan. I have listened to 4 designs using this or a very similar driver, and all have bottomed out with fairly easy bass loads. Not sure, but I think midrange duty is where this Morel driver would really shine. Overall nice speaker.

[JasonP]

The one thing I noticed and have noticed before, just my opinion mind you, that really wide baffles seem to lose depth in the soundfield. Compared to most of the narrower speakers, all the competitors sounded like the image was very flat with a noticeable lack of depth. It makes sense in that due to wavelengths, the wide speakers stay in 2pi space to a much lower frequency, so there is a lot less off axis relfected energy. On the other hand, that might make them much better than narrower speakers when placed near the front wall, so again it could depend on how they are intended to be used.

I just want to chime in and say I one thousand percent agree with these two statements. I noticed the lack of depth and am actually now playing with my crossover on the Enterprise to see if it can be addressed somehow that way, but I fear it is simply an effect of the changed radiation pattern on the larger surface of the speaker. On the other hand, they don't care much about the back wall at all. I have my build right now about 23" from the rear wall and no midrange clutter to speak of. This makes sense given the fact that much less midrange is radiated back to the wall.

[6thplanet]

For what it's worth, Ben, you brought a knife to a gun fight. As far as mid/tweet integration yours sounded the best, but not having a woofer to cover the low end gave the "win" to Chuck. To me Chucks was a touch light up top, but overall was sonically a fuller sounding speaker...and did it in an other wise bass flawed room for most of the enteries.

[Wolf]

It was definitely too large a room for those Morel woofers. Like I also said- they don't bottom out here at home before I find them to be too loud. I don't think they bottomed out 'easily', as only one track did it. As Dan said- others with fairly low bass didn't phase them. It was just the single track.

Agreed that they don't care about the front wall of the room they are in. Soundstage is still spacious, but depth of recording does suffer a smidge.

As to the knife/gun fight reference, I really didn't think they'd have issue since they took the Fischer-Spooner 'Never Win' track with pride in Matt's listening room. I did not think they should have been okay with that one. Just goes to show how a larger room affects maximum output. I had them spec'd to be fine at about 95dB in a normal room before they started to complain, and the larger room definitely hurt that number. They did fine on Friday at -11dB, but at -9dB on Saturday they had issues.

I might also add- I normally shoot for 100dB before issues, but the Morels would not achieve that in single mode according to simulations.

I guess that gives me cause for concern to adapt for MWAF.
Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

My Bucket-links of photos:

http://s18.photobucket.com/user/wolf_teeth_speaker/library/InDIYana%202016?sort=3&page=1&postlogin=true

Later,
Wolf

[jhollander]

I guess that gives me cause for concern to adapt for MWAF.
Later,
Wolf

You'll be competing against Eric's PBR's and the revised PA speakers. You may want to consider some paint or veneer. There's this guy in Tennessee...