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  • advice on 2.1 bluetooth build

    I am looking to do a portable 2.1 Bluetooth build, in a somewhat small sealed cabinet for the output of it. To start with I would like to use the TB 6.5 subs http://www.parts-express.com/tang-ba...eaker--264-919 and cross them at around 100 hz. I do not like the sound of subs crossed over higher than 100hz

    for speakers I have several ideas, one being to run a Dayton http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...8-ohm--290-226 and a TB http://www.parts-express.com/tang-ba...eaker--264-911 and no tweeter. I am personally not a huge fan of tweeters and like the sound of small full rangers better. The problem is getting a 3" full ranger to crossover well at 100 hz. Would this combination even sound good or should I just bite the bullet and run 2 nd91's and tweeters?




  • #2
    I would consider something like this: https://www.etsy.com/shop/RetroAudio...unav_listing-r

    The roxbox is a 2.1 system and has some pretty rave reviews.

    Might be worth checking out...
    Shaken, not stirred...

    Classix II
    OS MTM's
    Digger 8 sub
    Overnight Sensations Center Channel
    Sprite Build
    Wolf's PC Speakers
    Minions III with Voxel Sub

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    • #3
      I'm looking for a cool project to do with my son. Plus I enjoy wood working and speaker building. I have never done something this complex in the past though. So I am looking for some advice on what drivers will work well together. Plus for the money I can build a much cooler system than is currently being produced.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by mystic View Post
        I'm looking for a cool project to do with my son. Plus I enjoy wood working and speaker building. I have never done something this complex in the past though. So I am looking for some advice on what drivers will work well together. Plus for the money I can build a much cooler system than is currently being produced.
        My suggestion was not so much for you to consider buying one, but to give some inspiration for a project. The link above is to a boombox with full range drivers and a sub built into the same box with built in amp and Bluetooth.

        If you're looking for something relatively simple to do with your son, I did this one with my son and ended up giving it to my dad afterwards: https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/sprite
        Shaken, not stirred...

        Classix II
        OS MTM's
        Digger 8 sub
        Overnight Sensations Center Channel
        Sprite Build
        Wolf's PC Speakers
        Minions III with Voxel Sub

        Comment


        • #5
          That's awesome. Thank you so much for your input. That is exactly what I was looking for. Is the nd91 similar? At least as far as putting your filter on the speakers. I am looking to do a similar set up, but sealed and with a sub. I already have a 4.0 2.1 Bluetooth amp with 50wx2 and 100x1 channel. I am glad to hear you can get away without a tweeter with these drivers. Would you use the same filter with a sealed configuration? I am thinking of using approximately a .57l box and crossing them at 100 hz. unless of course they could be crossed at 80.

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          • #6
            The sprite can be configured many different ways. If it was me I would keep the same internal volume of the box and keep it ported.

            Another suggestion would be t build the Minions III with a Voxel sub. The minions do not deliver on the bottom end, but if it is crossed to a sub like the voxel they are very nice sounding. I actually liked it better then the Sprite, but the sprite on it's own has much better bottom end.

            Kevin
            Shaken, not stirred...

            Classix II
            OS MTM's
            Digger 8 sub
            Overnight Sensations Center Channel
            Sprite Build
            Wolf's PC Speakers
            Minions III with Voxel Sub

            Comment


            • #7
              The W3-1053 in the Minion III is one of the smoothest 3" full range drivers I have heard. It also has decent off axis response but does need a sub. 100hz is as low as you will want to go. Like Kevin said, you won't get the low end out of the 1053 like you will the ND91. But, you also won't get the clean highs out of the ND91 either. I built a boombox on the Sprite model and used a Sure 2x8 amp. The amp was more than enough to drive the ND91s. In the end I would have preferred a tweeter with them, maybe and ND16 crossed above 8k. I think a 4" or even 5" ND series driver would act as a decent woofer and match the look of the ND91. There is a good example of this in the Project Gallery, I think that model uses a 6" driver for the woofer.

              http://projectgallery.parts-express....-speaker-dock/
              "A dirty shop is an unsafe shop, if you injure yourself in a clean shop you are just stupid" - Coach Kupchinsky

              The Madeleine
              The Roxster
              Swopes 5.0
              Acoustic Panels
              Living Room Make Over

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mystic View Post
                That's awesome. Thank you so much for your input. That is exactly what I was looking for. Is the nd91 similar? At least as far as putting your filter on the speakers. I am looking to do a similar set up, but sealed and with a sub. I already have a 4.0 2.1 Bluetooth amp with 50wx2 and 100x1 channel. I am glad to hear you can get away without a tweeter with these drivers. Would you use the same filter with a sealed configuration? I am thinking of using approximately a .57l box and crossing them at 100 hz. unless of course they could be crossed at 80.
                What amp do you have (link to ad, picture)? Have you tested it?

                The Tang Band was personally recommended to me by Paul Carmody as the sub to add to the Sprite 2.0 boombox design (Kevin007's Minions sound like a good idea too). But the Tang Band really wants to be ported. It will deliver an F3 of 30hz in a 0.375ft3, ported box. And it'is not very efficient at all. The amp will need to run in the 20v to 24v range for any outside duty (pool, patio party, etc).

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mystic View Post
                  That's awesome. Thank you so much for your input. That is exactly what I was looking for. Is the nd91 similar? At least as far as putting your filter on the speakers. I am looking to do a similar set up, but sealed and with a sub. I already have a 4.0 2.1 Bluetooth amp with 50wx2 and 100x1 channel. I am glad to hear you can get away without a tweeter with these drivers. Would you use the same filter with a sealed configuration? I am thinking of using approximately a .57l box and crossing them at 100 hz. unless of course they could be crossed at 80.
                  I think it might help to understand the application. Mike eluded to this in his post. Is this going to be an outside at the park boom box or something that stays stationary in an inside location. Or is this going to be a portable unit? Mike also mentioned testing the chosen configuration. It may look good-to-go on paper but real world may be different. Just something to think about.
                  "A dirty shop is an unsafe shop, if you injure yourself in a clean shop you are just stupid" - Coach Kupchinsky

                  The Madeleine
                  The Roxster
                  Swopes 5.0
                  Acoustic Panels
                  Living Room Make Over

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am looking to make this as portable as possible, That is why I am looking at doing a sealed design. My challenge is finding speakers and a sub that sound well together in a sealed box configuration. If I have to add tweeters I will. I have the 3" Tang Bands and I love their sound, but I am unsure they would cross well at 100 HZ. The amp is here. http://www.amazon.com/Nobsound%C2%AE...ilpage_o03_s00

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                    • #11
                      You haven't mentioned battery power, so the fact that most of your drivers are quite inefficient (low 80dBs - as opposed to hi80s/lo90s) shouldn't be too critical.

                      You DO mention "subs" and "them" (in the plural), but a "2.1" system only uses/needs one sub. Subs reproduce too low of a freq. range for stereo to matter, and they suck up a lot of power. If you're really against tweeters (which will have MUCH better dispersion) I'd opt for the ND91/ND90/AURA NS3 3"ers over the W3s you already have. The W3s don't impress on either end (weak highs, and not enough excursion to do bass). Those 3"ers can go deeper-vented than the W6 can go-sealed. I'd probably go w/a single vented W6, and a pair of 3"ers sealed w/your chosen XO point. (Personally, I'd add tweeters to the mix as well. Look at Scott Sehlin's small two-ways for ideas, then add the W6 sub.)

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                      • #12
                        Mystic, Chris brings up a good point - do you plan to operate on battery power? And my original question: Is this for outdoor use?



                        The AMP:A member at diyaudio had a bad experience with this particular amp on two distinct units (BT squealing, etc.). We think its the particular BT daughter board. He was buying a similar amp using a different BT implementation but I haven't heard back the results yet. So I'd test the amp with whatever speakers you can prior to building. BTW: A TPA3116 2.1 implementation is my choice for my boombox and I have had much success with it (sans BT daughter board).

                        The Sub: I understand that building a Sprite design (ported) with a ported Sub may complicate construction for a portable. But why wouldn't you port the sub? Simplicity of construction? The issue is this: a sealed sub in a smaller footprint will have a hard time reaching down into the lower octaves. So crossing at 100 hz may give the sub a very narrow range to operate. For example, the Tang Band W6 in a 0.2ft3 sealed enclosure will have an F3 of ~70hz. It will operate in a narrow range crossing at 100hz and not go very deep. The W6 in a 0.4ft3 will have an F3 of ~37hz. Nice for a boombox. The sub really needs to be ported.

                        The W3s: I modeled the W3s in two sealed enclosures; 0.5L and 1.0L. Sealed they have usable output down to 300hz, possibly 200 hz. My boombox design crosses the sub in the middle hundreds and sounds great. I would think about crossing at 300 hz, a valid crossover point according to acoustic-aural design. Don't think of it so much as a sub, but as a 2-way with two midranges. Also, according to response modeler, W3s don't really need a tweeter for a boombox design.

                        Maybe Chris can elaborate on his W3 comments so we have a better understanding of the limitations he sees - "weak highs".

                        Power: To get the W6 (or similar sub) to output any volume, you'll need to be operating the amp near 24v. You don't mention if you want battery power or just portable using only AC power. On AC only, an old laptop brick at ~20v may be fine, 24v would be better. I'm using two AGM-SLA (lead acid) batteries in series for a nominal 24v and that really allows me to get power to a 4 ohm sub (70w from the ".1" channel on a TPA3116 amp). But lead acid batteries will add weight. Two 9AH batteries will run 12 lbs to13 lbs combined and will get a couple of hours at maximum volumes, many more at half power. LiPO batteries can cut that weight in half, but, but, they're a pain to deal with and pricey. You won't get rated capacity from any LiPo "bargains" you may find and charging them is a whole discipline in itself. Been there, done that.

                        Down at 100 hz and below, you'll lose 6db of sub output outdoors due to baffle step (you get some dB back when inside). At 40w, the W6 outputs 99db. Outdoors that will be equivalent to 93db. Hence the need for power and 24v to the amp. At 12v, your looking at 87db outside.

                        There is a huge difference in design parameters for inside only use versus outdoor use. Why I asked for typical usage early on.

                        The W3 in a 0.5L enclosure ...

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                        • #13
                          The Dayton Audio PS180-8 is on sale. 295-344
                          " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

                          Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
                          Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

                          http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
                          http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

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                          • #14
                            I really like the specs of the nd 91's and I am leaning towards them. If I go that route and do cross them with tweeters, I would like ones that blend well. I don't like tweeters that stand out from the speaker if that makes sense. I am not a fan of too much treble.

                            ​For the battery I am going to try using a 14.7v battery that runs around 16.2v when charged. It is rated at 5200 mah
                            If I have to get a bigger or higher voltage one I am open to it. If it only runs for an hour at higher volumes I am ok with that for my uses. I normally don't listen at very loud volumes.

                            I like the sound of sealed speakers, and their design is smaller. I don't expect a 6.5" sub to do what say a 10" will do I am realistic to that end. I would like this to be as portable (small) as possible.

                            You guys are awesome and thank you for all your help.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mystic View Post
                              I like the sound of sealed speakers, and their design is smaller. I don't expect a 6.5" sub to do what say a 10" will do I am realistic to that end. I would like this to be as portable (small) as possible.
                              The Tang Band isn't a great choice for sealed. The Goldwood GW-206/4 is designed for a sealed system (and a bit more sensitive than the Tang Band). It's the best choice I see after a quick scan of available options. I'll post a closer look at its model tonight.

                              Just-a-Note: If your aversion to ported is based on car jockey's "one-note-wonders" in the trunk of their cars, we're way beyond that in terms of fidelity with ported designs.

                              Also, while it's true that for any given woofer a ported design is larger than sealed, you may end up with a larger volume with a woofer designed for sealed than then one designed for ported (to get anything meaningful below 100hz).

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