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Why do we invert tweeters rather than woofers?

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  • Why do we invert tweeters rather than woofers?

    You read the title...

    Why not invert woofers?

  • #2
    There was a thread over on DIYaudio about this not too long ago, but in theory, it shouldn't matter.

    Does it? Many differing opinions will present themselves.

    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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    • #3
      Because an inverted woofer would stick out of the enclosure too far. SAF. Not an issue with a tweeter.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by marvin View Post
        Because an inverted woofer would stick out of the enclosure too far. SAF. Not an issue with a tweeter.

        hehehe

        I know some audiophiles who will argue in certain systems, both speakers should be hooked up positive on the amp to negative on the speakers. I am sure some people will argue that there are audible reasons for inverting tweeters rather than woofers (I assume we are talking about compensating for the reverse null in certain xo types) but I suspect it is only because that is how we all talk about it. It will not matter if woofer or tweeter is reverse polarity. Maybe because it is easier to remove the tweeter rather than the woofer?
        Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by monkish54 View Post
          Why not invert woofers?
          Because with a positive voltage applied the woofer cone will still move out even when it has a 2nd order low pass filter. While absolute polarity is inaudible it should be maintained if only to not complicate overall system polarity issues with multiple speakers.

          www.billfitzmaurice.com
          www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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          • #6
            Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
            Because with a positive voltage applied the woofer cone will still move out even when it has a 2nd order low pass filter. While absolute polarity is inaudible it should be maintained if only to not complicate overall system polarity issues with multiple speakers.

            Are you saying that if I reverse polarity on both speakers it would be "Inaudible"?

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            • #7
              I may be barking up the wrong tree....I agree with the sentiment it shouldn't count, so spittingballing..... I woner if this comes back to the days where drivers were more non-linear between positave and negitave cycles. Impuse may have been better, and woofers may have behaved better when impule dynamics like kick drums were handled with positave excusion. Thought two is the tweeter handles sound which is above the treshold of the room transition. One less variable? Again, spitballing for sake of discussion but is should not matter. Just like if a system is phase inverting, hooking up the amp out of polarity should not make a difference.
              .

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Psycoacoustics View Post


                Are you saying that if I reverse polarity on both speakers it would be "Inaudible"?
                Essentially yes. It's extremely easy to test. See for yourself. If you can reliably tell the difference more than half the time, I might think you were part cyborg.
                Isn't it about time we started answering rhetorical questions?

                Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects
                Twitter: @undefinition1

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Psycoacoustics View Post
                  Are you saying that if I reverse polarity on both speakers it would be "Inaudible"?
                  Absolute polarity is when driver cones all extend outward with a positive signal. There are those who claim to be able to hear when the cones go inward with a positive signal. I'm not a member of that club.

                  www.billfitzmaurice.com
                  www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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                  • #10
                    There was ONE instance where Jeff, myself, and several others were at Bamberg's place in 2002. He was playing a compressed Bangles cut through his expensive Threshold/Aragon/Elite system, and switched it maybe a dozen times because it was capable of doing this on the fly. I think it was a finger-snap of some sort that was being played, and it was audible. The snap decay and impact changed sound by just inverting the signal. If it takes $10k to tell, it ain't worth the trouble.

                    In case of inverting amplifiers, I was at CKY-DIY in 2011 (IIRC), and Aaron brought his Threshold amp. Being an inverted amplifier, you had to connect the speakers in reverse polarity, or it did not sound as good.

                    I have inverted a woofer connection once. This was long ago in my Audinums project. The woofer overlapped the tweeter, so I only removed the woofer and flipped it alone. I couldn't tell any difference in those in my own testing with flipped or not on the back terminals.

                    Later,
                    Wolf
                    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                    *InDIYana event website*

                    Photobucket pages:
                    https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I must have misunderstood the question. Most of the replies seem to discuss reversing polarity. I assumed the OP was musing about inverted tweeter domes (common) or inverting woofer cones (uncommon). My bad?

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                      • #12
                        Should the polarity of the tweeter be reversed in a fully active system?
                        If it cant be fixed with Gaffa, It cant be fixed!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Oxbox View Post
                          Should the polarity of the tweeter be reversed in a fully active system?
                          That will still depend on the phase response between the drivers at the crossover point.
                          https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by marvin View Post
                            I must have misunderstood the question. Most of the replies seem to discuss reversing polarity. I assumed the OP was musing about inverted tweeter domes (common) or inverting woofer cones (uncommon). My bad?
                            This is funny, you might be right. We won't know until monkish54 comes back.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                              Because with a positive voltage applied the woofer cone will still move out even when it has a 2nd order low pass filter. While absolute polarity is inaudible it should be maintained if only to not complicate overall system polarity issues with multiple speakers.
                              Like a 2-way playing fullrange alongside of a subwoofer? if the woofer polarity has been switched to accommodate the lead/lag of a 2nd order crossover, the subwoofer will now be out-of-phase by 180 degrees.


                              Originally posted by wassp223 View Post
                              This is funny, you might be right. We won't know until monkish54 comes back.

                              Sorry Marvin, I was referring to tweeter polarity.

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