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ToriPOP! - Design/Build log

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  • ToriPOP! - Design/Build log

    Driver SelectionClick image for larger version

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    Cabinet:Click image for larger version

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    So it begins:
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  • #2
    Cool Project! Looking forward to following this thread. Going to send you a PM on the plate amp, have some comments about it that may interest you. Good luck!
    My "No-Name" CC Speaker
    Kerry's "Silverbacks"
    Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
    The Archers
    Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
    The Gandalf's

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kevin K. View Post
      Cool Project! Looking forward to following this thread. Going to send you a PM on the plate amp, have some comments about it that may interest you. Good luck!
      Hey Kev,
      I really appriciate the feedback, thanks!
      .

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      • #4
        Mike you do know the amp has virtually no output below 45hz right? I have one of the amps myself and am looking for drivers now. I am going to use a powered sub with the yung sd100.
        https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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        • #5
          Originally posted by isaeagle4031 View Post
          Mike you do know the amp has virtually no output below 45hz right? I have one of the amps myself and am looking for drivers now. I am going to use a powered sub with the yung sd100.
          Is it high passed?
          .

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          • #6
            nope more like current limited. The specs rate the amp down to 45hz. Considering its designed for small bookshelve type builds and/or to be paired with a powered sub, they seem to have chosen slightly higher power and features over extension.
            https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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            • #7
              Originally posted by isaeagle4031 View Post
              nope more like current limited. The specs rate the amp down to 45hz. Considering its designed for small bookshelve type builds and/or to be paired with a powered sub, they seem to have chosen slightly higher power and features over extension.
              Thank you for that. I always can just build them sans amp and go outboard. I thought an all in one would be great but feedback from you and Kevin is making me re-think. Bummah.
              .

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mzisserson View Post

                Thank you for that. I always can just build them sans amp and go outboard. Bummah.
                Lots of options with the low cost digital amps. A 2.1 system could power both speakers and a passive sub. With a 24v supply, your looking at some decent watts, exceeding 30w per speaker for nominal 8 ohm loads. You may need to have soldering skills to modify the amp to your needs and/or correct mfg defects (there's a few threads outlining various upgrades and modifications for several popular boards including a bluetooth version).

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post

                  Lots of options with the low cost digital amps. A 2.1 system could power both speakers and a passive sub. With a 24v supply, your looking at some decent watts, exceeding 30w per speaker for nominal 8 ohm loads. You may need to have soldering skills to modify the amp to your needs and/or correct mfg defects (there's a few threads outlining various upgrades and modifications for several popular boards including a bluetooth version).
                  Thanks Mike,
                  I am going to run a couple of tests on the bluetooth module and if it is as underwhelming as it seems, Lepai makes that unit that comes with a deent power supply for $100 thats bluetooth and 100WPC. Even if it delivers 50 pretty good, that will be more than enough.


                  .....Or I can just get a HIFI dongle and set her up with my old carver sunfire seperates lol. What could possiblly go wrong with that?!

                  A sub is not an option. Sticking with the design goals I want to keep it as self contained as possible and at least have the speakers full range enough for pop/dance. With the F10 of 38 and gentle knee, depending on room placement I think 45Hz at decent levels with headroom for the "woomph woomph" can be expected and save the lowest syth bass, should suffice.
                  .

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                  • #10
                    Made some sawdust this morning. I love the smell of MDF dust in the morning...Smells like...Victory.

                    A little bigger than I visioned (Pop's smokes for size) but the overall tall/thin scale is what I wanted.


                    Click image for larger version

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                    • #11
                      Well, now that this is moving along. Here is a shot of one of the cabs rough-sanded....

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                      I have decided to stay the coarse with the Dayton Bluetooth plate amp. More to come on that.

                      Lastly, here are the T/S measurements of the 4 DA115's. They do vary from MFG specs, however when I averaged the 4 measurements and plugged it into the box sim the change was hardly noticeable...About 0.5dB less output through the woofer's active range. They were hammered with 15Hz right below the point of mechanical noise for 24 hours for break-in before measuring.

                      Re = 6.6853 ohms
                      Fs = 69.5598 Hz
                      Zmax = 49.3078 ohms
                      Qes = 0.5527
                      Qms = 3.5238
                      Qts = 0.4778
                      Le = 0.4404 mH (at 1 kHz)
                      Diam = 82.5500 mm ( 3.2500 in )
                      Sd = 5352.0971 mm^2( 8.2958 in^2)
                      Vas = 2.9773 L ( 0.1051 ft^3)
                      BL = 6.1502 N/A
                      Mms = 7.1550 g
                      Cms = 731.6698 uM/N
                      Kms = 1366.7367 N/M
                      Rms = 0.8874 R mechanical
                      Efficiency = 0.1704 %
                      Sensitivity= 84.3316 dB @1W/1m
                      Sensitivity= 85.1113 dB @2.83Vrms/1m


                      Re = 6.8547 ohms
                      Fs = 68.8860 Hz
                      Zmax = 48.8000 ohms
                      Qes = 0.5899
                      Qms = 3.6099
                      Qts = 0.5071
                      Le = 0.4450 mH (at 1 kHz)
                      Diam = 82.5500 mm ( 3.2500 in )
                      Sd = 5352.0971 mm^2( 8.2958 in^2)
                      Vas = 3.3623 L ( 0.1187 ft^3)
                      BL = 5.7000 N/A
                      Mms = 6.4603 g
                      Cms = 826.2757 uM/N
                      Kms = 1210.2498 N/M
                      Rms = 0.7746 R mechanical
                      Efficiency = 0.1751 %
                      Sensitivity= 84.4498 dB @1W/1m
                      Sensitivity= 85.1208 dB @2.83Vrms/1m

                      Re = 6.9739 ohms
                      Fs = 67.7901 Hz
                      Zmax = 48.2939 ohms
                      Qes = 0.6004
                      Qms = 3.5574
                      Qts = 0.5137
                      Le = 0.4499 mH (at 1 kHz)
                      Diam = 82.5500 mm ( 3.2500 in )
                      Sd = 5352.0971 mm^2( 8.2958 in^2)
                      Vas = 3.0208 L ( 0.1067 ft^3)
                      BL = 6.0609 N/A
                      Mms = 7.4251 g
                      Cms = 742.3423 uM/N
                      Kms = 1347.0874 N/M
                      Rms = 0.8890 R mechanical
                      Efficiency = 0.1473 %
                      Sensitivity= 83.6992 dB @1W/1m
                      Sensitivity= 84.2953 dB @2.83Vrms/1m

                      Re = 6.7091 ohms
                      Fs = 69.9648 Hz
                      Zmax = 48.0408 ohms
                      Qes = 0.5315
                      Qms = 3.2741
                      Qts = 0.4572
                      Le = 0.4225 mH (at 1 kHz)
                      Diam = 82.5500 mm ( 3.2500 in )
                      Sd = 5352.0971 mm^2( 8.2958 in^2)
                      Vas = 3.2377 L ( 0.1143 ft^3)
                      BL = 6.0077 N/A
                      Mms = 6.5037 g
                      Cms = 795.6452 uM/N
                      Kms = 1256.8416 N/M
                      Rms = 0.8732 R mechanical
                      Efficiency = 0.1960 %



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                      • #12
                        Thin baffle? I'm sure you meant "narrow" baffle. Speaking of thin baffles, you should chamfer or round-over the insides of your baffles where the two woofers are mounted. Also, that opening for the small midrange driver is actually a tunnel which will direct early (audible) reflections back towards the backside of the midrange cone. Would you mount the midrange to the back of a long tunnel? Then why would you mount the midrange to the front of a long tunnel? Hopefully you line the tunnel heavily with sound absorbing material, something like egg crate foam.

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                        • #13
                          Hi Alan,
                          Thanks for the concerns. Please see below:


                          Thin baffle? I'm sure you meant "narrow" baffle. We would not want to confuse anyone who may be looking at the picture. Glad you mentioned this. Speaking of thin baffles, you should chamfer or round-over the insides of your baffles where the two woofers are mounted. You know what happens when you assume.......There are 1/2" round-overs inside the woofer holes and near a 1/2" round-over into the mid-chamber. All of the drivers have pleanty of breathing room into the cabinet. Also, that opening for the small midrange driver is actually a tunnel which will direct early (audible) reflections back towards the backside of the midrange cone. Measurements will tell. I have used this driver's little brother three times now and if this follows suit, it should have very flat mid-range response and extremely low distortion. Never had an issue with reflections in the time, or frequency domains with a generous round-over on the back. Would you mount the midrange to the back of a long tunnel? Then why would you mount the midrange to the front of a long tunnel? Hopefully you line the tunnel heavily with sound absorbing material, something like egg crate foam. We mount all of our drivers in reflective spaces. It is up to us to take the appropriate steps to overcome this challange. It is one of the reasons for using a PVC end-cap instead of hogging off a chunk and calling it a day. The endcap has three distinct coutours and the cap is not evenly shaped. This will help diffuse standing waves. Furthermore, it is easy to "shape" the inside which is the plan, along with generous stuffing. Please do not forget these are a work in progress. Thanks again for lookin' out. I think the major take-away here is many times there is not enough attention paid to the cabinet to reduce the issues it can cause, so good points. My biggest concern, which again we will see when measured, is the lack of bracing where the woofers/PR are. I may address this somehow, just not too sure how. These cabs already have 10lbs. in a 5lb cab... So to say.
                          .

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
                            Hi Alan,
                            Thanks for the concerns. Please see below:

                            ​Measurements aside, you can hear it even without measuring it. Thin baffles in the vicinity of open back drivers sound better because of fewer early reflections. Again, would you mount a mid-bass at the back of a long tunnel? It would be audible wouldn't it? Speak out loud and listen to yourself, then cup your hands around your mouth and speak again? Sounds different doesn't it? Does not require measurements to immediately hear the difference. Did it sound nasality or honky?
                            Last edited by ; 10-03-2016, 04:19 PM. Reason: Wolf made me do it.

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                            • #15

                              ​Measurements aside, you can hear it even without measuring it. Thin baffles in the vicinity of open back drivers sound better only because of less early reflections. Again, would you mount a mid-bass at the back of a long tunnel? It would be audible wouldn't it? Speak out loud and listen to yourself, then cup your hands around your mouth and speak again? Sounds different doesn't it? Does not require measurements to immediately hear the difference. Did it sound nasality or honky?
                              Breathing room helps for sure. Never had a nasal or honk sound that was not measurable. Reflections to the back to the driver cone are very visible and show up both in frequency and decay.

                              So time will tell. Never had an FRS 5 (the lil' bro of this mid) honk or sound nasal and two of three were in 3/4" baffles with 1/2 rounds like this one. I could be all wet, i am hedging bets that this "X" verson has more to offer, but I need to get the cabs finished before I can measure but have done this enough to know when its a pretty sure bet.
                              .

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