Overnight Sensation build

[Chris Roemer]

Have you ever measured any other speaker (like, some "known" entity) w/your setup? If so, how did THEY measure?

[Chris_Perez]

Just a thought... I keep looking at your measurements and your levels seem awfully low.
The low frequency peak hits 80 dB and your "reference" level is in the 60 dB range. I wonder if you might actually be measuring your noise floor, and the low frequency peak is a slight breeze across the mic (or a train, highway, military cargo plane... I'm near Wright Patt AFB and some days cargo planes will circle for hours) . Where I live, if I take measurements outside I need to get my levels up to the 85 to 90 dB range (minimum) to rule out background noises (and my neighbors hate me ).
This may sound silly, but have you tried setting up your measurement system and just measure nothing? I'm curious as to what your noise floor actually is.

Now, I'm not very familiar with REW, so that may just be a calibration thing. But even then, a 20 dB peak at 80 Hz is unheard of (except for in car stereo competitions from about 15 years ago, "these 12 18's are tuned to 80 Hz!") .

[Paul Carmody]

Just a thought... I keep looking at your measurements and your levels seem awfully low.
The low frequency peak hits 80 dB and your "reference" level is in the 60 dB range. I wonder if you might actually be measuring your noise floor, and the low frequency peak is a slight breeze across the mic (or a train, highway, military cargo plane... I'm near Wright Patt AFB and some days cargo planes will circle for hours) . Where I live, if I take measurements outside I need to get my levels up to the 85 to 90 dB range (minimum) to rule out background noises (and my neighbors hate me ).
This may sound silly, but have you tried setting up your measurement system and just measure nothing? I'm curious as to what your noise floor actually is.

Now, I'm not very familiar with REW, so that may just be a calibration thing. But even then, a 20 dB peak at 80 Hz is unheard of (except for in car stereo competitions from about 15 years ago, "these 12 18's are tuned to 80 Hz!") .

Whoah! Good catch.

Also, I will say that with swept sine, you're getting EVERYTHING. You're not gating out the environment as you can do with MLS. So you are also measuring the influence of the space/boundaries around you on the sound.

[Kornbread]

Do you DATS, so you can measure the woofers T/S parameters? Sounds like you might have some not-to-spec woofers. It has happened to me, but they replaced no problem. Sorry if this has been asked/answered before.

No way to measure T/S. For both speakers to measure the same my guess is, unless specs have changed during production, it's my bad.

Have you ever measured any other speaker (like, some "known" entity) w/your setup? If so, how did THEY measure?

Excellent idea. I have a pair of NHT 2.5i's that are small enough to schlep outside.

... I wonder if you might actually be measuring your noise floor ...

Rural setting, on gravel road approx 100 yards off two lane country highway, no breeze. There was no traffic on the gravel road, minimal traffic on the highway and the only air traffic around here are the crop dusters. But you do bring up something possibly overlooked; measurements are done on the upper deck. What if the upper deck floor has its own resonance node around 80hz. and it's traveling up the stand and being picked up by the mic? These speakers are bass heavy, more than I'm used to, but maybe it's just their thing. Anyway, I'll try and remeasure at a higher level. The volume knob on the DTA120 was around the 11 o'clock position, somewhere around 12 o'clock is where it starts to loose control with the NHT's.

Thanks for the help guys. I'm trying to get this worked out.

[Millstonemike]

... But you do bring up something possibly overlooked; measurements are done on the upper deck. What if the upper deck floor has its own resonance node around 80hz. and it's traveling up the stand and being picked up by the mic?

Thanks for the help guys. I'm trying to get this worked out.

When I asked if they sounded "boomy", you replied: "Yep, easy to hear it ...", so that could be the measurement environment. You would hear what the mic is hearing.

But you also said: "and the cones be banging away. Something is waaaaaaaaaaay off. " That's not due to measurement issues.

Just trying to help sort it out. Noble cause, handsome wood, known design, it shouldn't be this hard.

[Kornbread]

Have you ever measured any other speaker (like, some "known" entity) w/your setup? If so, how did THEY measure?

Thanks, this got me to thinking after measuring the HNT's ( a known), and getting a similar response on the bottom end. Still havent found what I'm doing wrong to get such an inaccurate measurement.

[Kornbread]

When I asked if they sounded "boomy", you replied: "Yep, easy to hear it ...", so that could be the measurement environment. You would hear what the mic is hearing.

But you also said: "and the cones be banging away. Something is waaaaaaaaaaay off. " That's not due to measurement issues.

Just trying to help sort it out. Noble cause, handsome wood, known design, it shouldn't be this hard.

They still be banging away. Should see how these things dance playing 21 Pilots Hethen. Specs list 3.2mm excursion, they're using every bit of it.

How do they sound? Keep in mind this is nothing more than my opinion, and nothing but that; like a 8utthole, everybody has one.
The treble is fine but just a shade bright, not bad at all. Resolution on top is ok. The midrange feels smooth and a bit laid back, it seems some information gets covered up, no problems here. Bass ... well ... it's there and it plays well below what one should expect from such a small woofer, but IMO, it's a bit too much. Not one-notey, or too wooly, but there is a prominent area that sticks out in the bass. Works great for carrying along the beat on newer pop but it adds some coloration on the lower end of some male vocals. Images good, capable of throwing a stage behind, between, and in some instances, outside of their position. Center fill is great, vocals are not pinpoint but are clearly in their spot, and well behind the plane of the speakers.

All said this is a very pleasing speaker to listen to for extended periods of time. Just the opposite of fatiguing.

Most listening was done with the DTA120, woven cat5 speaker cable, Aune DAC, and Spority or FLAC files as source.

Edit: Toed them in till the inside met about 1 foot to the side of listening position. The midrange opened up considerably and imaging is better to boot.

[Wolf]

Is your laptop the source? I'm wondering if you have some kind of an issue with EQ or something like BEATS audio boosting the low end. Maybe some more info on your measurements and how they were setup. If you are using an outboard DAC, then that likely rules this thought out.

Later,
Wolf

[Kornbread]

After a few weeks of them playing almost daily, I haven't noticed any changes in character. Be sure and tow them in, the midrange will thank you. I didn't think they'd be this picky, but small changes in placement make a noticeable difference. Bass is still a bit full for my taste but works great for current pop music.

For the most part, I've been listening to Spotify. These things need fed a better source than that. There is an easily discernible difference between good flac files and spotify. The tiny bit of harshness on top is gone, the midrange opens up, and they just come alive. Wow!

I have only used these with the DTA120. They may very well change character with another amp. The DTA sounds great on my NHT's (tight bass and clean midrange), but like Krap on my Mirages (bloated bass). YMMV

Is your laptop the source? I'm wondering if you have some kind of an issue with EQ or something like BEATS audio boosting the low end. Maybe some more info on your measurements and how they were setup. If you are using an outboard DAC, then that likely rules this thought out.

Later,
Wolf

I told you guys I was going to kick myself in the bumm when I finally figured out what the problem was.

If you are checking to be sure Windoz has no 'audio enhancements' turned on, be sure and check the box 'Disable All Enhancements' even if there are no checks by any of the other audio enhancers. Apparently they can be on with no check mark showing on any of the enhancements.



Here are the new measurements done outside setup same as before. Gold was before, purple is current.

[Paul Carmody]

Hooray!!! Now that's a measurement I can slap my name on.

[Kornbread]

After a few months of listening some impressions have changed, some remain.

Good bass is the driving force behind this speaker, it's not overdone, but a bit more than I prefer. It does wonders on pop. My room dimensions may have something to do with the bass.

They're in a ~20' x 25' room about 4' from the rear wall. They won't annoy the neighbors, but they do an admirable job of filling the room with sound.

Care needs to be taken in placement, they are picky about being toed-in just right. In my case, the inside of the cabinet should meet just behind the listener's head. Once in the right spot, the music just emerges from wherever it's supposed to.

They are the opposite of fatiguing; they just let you enjoy the music, but they are revealing enough to show differences upstream. It's easy to hear the difference when switching the DTA120 with other amps/preamps. Switching from Spotify extreme quality to flac files is huge.

... and I like the looks of the HiVi metal cones.

This is a solid performing speaker. I would expect to pay a lot more $ to buy a commercial offering with this level of performance, than what this cost to build. Paul C. did a good job.



Anyhow, the Overnights, DTA120 and woven speaker speaker cable will be going to their new home this weekend. Hope the BIL likes the system.


What to build next??? It has to be affordable, fairly simple to construct, preferably small to medium sized floorstander, punch way above it's price, and a jack of all trades; imaging, reasonable frequency response, able to fill a normal sized room, able to play all kinds of music, etc. Eventually, they will find their way into another BIL's living room.

[Wolf]

What to build next??? It has to be affordable, fairly simple to construct, preferably small to medium sized floorstander, punch way above it's price, and a jack of all trades; imaging, reasonable frequency response, able to fill a normal sized room, able to play all kinds of music, etc. Eventually, they will find their way into another BIL's living room.

Nephila, Amiga, etc...
Wolf

[Evan Steeves]

Hey Kornbread, been following this thread, and I am glad you finally found your issue! Audio troubleshooting can be a nightmare sometimes, especially when you have the additional constraints of car audio! (which is the world I come from :P)

As a next project I would have to second wolf's suggestion for Amiga towers (or the modified version, the CORE's). They really do satisfy the 'Jack of all trades' requirement you mentioned, get good bass and to me they are pretty non-fatiguing. I love using them for watching movies as well..can't believe how much bass I can get out of them in ovies specifically...they really do well. I look forward to finishing the rest of my 5.1 system and seeing how the Amigas perform with a solid center channel and a good sub to complement them :D They are also a really good value, although maybe not the best DIY speaker tower out there, for the price I feel they can't easily be beat!

[Kornbread]

Wolf, I'm having trouble finding all your builds; followed your photobucket link, but that site bombards my laptop and slow internet connection turning the effort into a big waste of time. Is there a Wolf repository somewhere?

Almost as bad is the PE gallery, it takes a while to load and you are forced to begin anew at the first page after viewing a build, no matter what page you want to view. Hello internet in the sticks.

I have looked at the Nephila but I can honestly say, my sister would not allow a bright yellow speaker in her living room, no matter how good it sounds.

Speakers in contention thus far; Amiga, TriTrix, and this Dayton3 build that seems ridiculously cheap and would require dedicated stands, http://web.archive.org/web/200803160...D3/dayton3.htm

I've seen some other builds using the really cheap Dayton 295-305 6.5" woofer. Is it that good?

[Wolf]

A repository? Not really. My bucket site is basically it. Try this; Search for "I theorize" in the search bar here at PE with me as the thread starter. You might get some ideas....

The Xenolith also might be a good build, even though it's a bookshelf.
Later,
Wolf