135hz Semented Midbass Horn Build

[JavadS]

Did you consider building a single horn sub tuned to 30 - 40 Hz...

I did, I have and considered many horn loaded designs, and I may do one yet, but this is the route I'm going for now. The horn loaded subs are very big, and more complicated to build, and these 4 18" are modular and configurable in various ways. Port tuned to 30ishHz these 4 18" don't give up much to a horn and will easily be able to hit 125db with less than 500 watts. I can also swap in pretty much any 18" on the market into these enclosures to experiment with other drivers as well. Thanks, Javad

[craigk]

I did, I have and considered many horn loaded designs, and I may do one yet, but this is the route I'm going for now. The horn loaded subs are very big, and more complicated to build, and these 4 18" are modular and configurable in various ways. Port tuned to 30ishHz these 4 18" don't give up much to a horn and will easily be able to hit 125db with less than 500 watts. I can also swap in pretty much any 18" on the market into these enclosures to experiment with other drivers as well. Thanks, Javad

I think this is some very good thinking. Usually you don't have options to change things around.

[zobsky]

I did, I have and considered many horn loaded designs, and I may do one yet, but this is the route I'm going for now. The horn loaded subs are very big, and more complicated to build, and these 4 18" are modular and configurable in various ways. Port tuned to 30ishHz these 4 18" don't give up much to a horn and will easily be able to hit 125db with less than 500 watts. I can also swap in pretty much any 18" on the market into these enclosures to experiment with other drivers as well. Thanks, Javad

When dealing with integrating subs with horns, It's not just about SPL and/or low frequency extension. Horns are lower distortion devices . That's why ,IMHO, most direct radiator subs seem to muddy up the sound when mated with horn mid-bass modules. OTOH, you have 4 drivers so hopefully, that helps with lowering distortion. Consider setting them up as pairs of push pull - you might reap some benefits from even harmonic cancellation though you probably wont' reap the full bandpass filtering effects of a true PPSL manifold

I've been down this road before quite a few times in the past - and have pretty much abandoned direct radiator subwoofers personally (I still build them for friends though).

FWIW, my favorite "small" horn sub for music (though it doesn't go very low) is (was) a BFM T18 till a friend dropped and wrecked it. I use a single table tuba for home theater or (temporarily) with my DIY klipsch belle bass bins . Currently contemplating a pair of tapped horns for this project but I have more latitude as my bass bins go down about an octave lower than yours - you can't reasonably expect to use tapped horns crossed over at 130 - 140 Hz (I found this out the hard way, trying to integrate a pair of 50 Hz tapped horns with a set of conical full range horns I build a few years back).

Best of luck

[Sydney]

...The horn loaded subs are very big, and more complicated to build,

No escaping that.; At one time the band I worked with used Horns that required 4 people to move.
That got old quick.

these 4 18" are modular and configurable in various ways....

What were your "plans"?
One of the concepts in Live Sound are bass modules implemented to achieve directional control

[JavadS]

When dealing with integrating subs with horns, It's not just about SPL and/or low frequency extension. Horns are lower distortion devices . That's why ,IMHO, most direct ...

I've posted about the configurations a few times in this thread, but they will be configured in dual opposed configuration when used with the midbass horn, and I will experiment (for fun) stacking them and using them with only the horn as well crossed over at 500hz.

I have built, including these, 8 subwoofers in the past year and about 16 sets of speakers, so this isn't my last build and I have no plan to stop experimenting anytime soon.

I have multiple plans and designs for horn loaded subs and do plan to build one in the future.

I had the chance to get these fired up last night, the bass they produce is prodigious, I'll post more info but turned up even a little they easily rattled things inside the walls I didn't know were there on 150watts each, and that's with the cones barely moving visibly.

Thanks,
Javad

[JavadS]

What were your "plans"? One of the concepts in Live Sound are bass modules implemented to achieve directional control

Thanks Sydney, see post above. Javad

[Sydney]

...I had the chance to get these fired up last night, the bass they produce is prodigious, I'll post more info but turned up even a little they easily rattled things inside the walls I didn't know were there on 150watts each, and that's with the cones barely moving visibly....

I took a look at the Sensitivity for the PA460, and so this ^ doesn't surprise me.
The significance of Sensitivity often has to be demonstrated to be fully appreciated.

[JavadS]

I took a look at the Sensitivity for the PA460, and so this ^ doesn't surprise me. The significance of Sensitivity often has to be demonstrated to be fully appreciated.

Absolutely which is why I chose these woofers to experiment with, I'll do more measurements but they are very efficient, they won't go deep in boxes this "small" (they model well in 20ft each!) but they're w/in about 3-5db of keeping up with the horns, which I think I can make up for with biamping and staying passive. Thanks!

[JavadS]

You know in Goonies at the end when the pirate ship sails out and the cop says "holy Mary...Mother of God!"...? Well that's sort of how firing these things up for the first time was like!

First some finishing details. Rat Rod passive XO, low pass around 125hz







Mounting the drivers







Dual opposed configuration



XO installed and split to top section





Aaaand, wala





Did some quick XO tweaking and ended up with this, bass is about 3-5db down and I'm going to try Biamping to even that out before resorting to active.



Initial impressions...WOW, this is the type of speaker that gives you a physiological response to music, I find my heart rate and pulse raising listening to my reference music. Bass is prodigious, like shake your hair and other body parts powerful, SPL is effortless, I hit 50% volume on my Adcom preamp and it sounded like the house was rattling from the inside out, volumes easily 115db+ at 1-meter, and that's on less than 300 watts or so per channel (Adcom GFA-555).

Fun stuff! Will keep playing with them!

Thanks,
Javad

[ugly woofer]

Very cool Javad! Another set for the dining room collection.

[4thtry]

Fantastic photography! Cool design. But a little bit too loud for me. You need to set these up in a large auditorium somewhere.

[JavadS]

Fantastic photography! Cool design. But a little bit too loud for me. You need to set these up in a large auditorium somewhere.

Hah yea Bill these are a lot of Speaker! They'd be awesome in a large space playing music at live concert levels, I've never quite experienced anything like them, having fun with them =) Javad

[JavadS]

I did some more XO tweaking and they are sounding very good, I also was able to bring the bass up to the level of the midbass horn.this is a blended sweep gated to 5ms Close up on the bass FR, comparison with both ports open and one plugged, actually quite close to the models if you consider room resonances I demoed them for some friends last night, Tricycle Film and the BB's track 1 almost resulted in a few cardiac arrests with the incredible dynamic range of that album =) Javad

[TN Allen]

"... my wife would either divorce me, or murder me... "

Or be swallwoed?

[JavadS]

Good Lord Javad! Your builds never cease to amaze. Those Horns and subs together look like they're going to swallow someone with sound! If I tried something half this big I'm fairly certain my wife would either divorce me, or murder me... maybe both! Keep up the good work and I'll keep living vicariously through your experiments!

Haha thanks Keith! They are pretty incredible to listen to, they can do things with the music I've personally never heard, Michael Jackson Billy Jean, a song I've heard a million times, is a totally new experience for example =) My wife is awesome, she is someone who recognizes my passions and let's me run with them, for that I'm very thankful!