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New Dayton Bluetooth Amps: How do you get around this problem?

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  • New Dayton Bluetooth Amps: How do you get around this problem?

    Anyone know of a way around this problem. I was looking at building a 2.1 system using one of these new Bluetooth amps from Dayton. http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...th-40--325-104 and this pre-amp board http://www.parts-express.com/variabl...ntrol--320-670 with this amp for the sub. http://www.parts-express.com/tda7492...2x50w--320-606

    The problem is tagging on the additional amp for the sub and still having Bluetooth capability. As far as I can see, there is no audio out from the Dayton board so you would have to split the input before the amps and therefore Bluetooth is not functional for the sub amp.
    My "No-Name" CC Speaker
    Kerry's "Silverbacks"
    Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
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    Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
    The Gandalf's

  • #2
    I haven't used one yet but love those new little boards, I like the tpa3116 and aptx in a tiny cheap package. Anyway.. what about building or buying a line out converter to splice into the speaker outputs of the Bluetooth board to feed the .1 board? I'm thinking the same concept as the adapters used in car audio to add an amp to a stock head unit in a car. I think there are diagrams online, pretty sure it is just a simple resistor network.

    Here: http://www.parts-express.com/metra-i...e-rca--265-026
    Last edited by dynamo; 12-30-2016, 02:08 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dynamo View Post
      I haven't used one yet but love those new little boards, I like the tpa3118 and aptx in a tiny cheap package. Anyway.. what about building or buying a line out converter to splice into the speaker outputs of the Bluetooth board to feed the .1 board? I'm thinking the same concept as the adapters used in car audio to add an amp to a stock head unit in a car. I think there are diagrams online, pretty sure it is just a simple resistor network.

      Here: http://www.parts-express.com/metra-i...e-rca--265-026
      Yea, I'm thinking your solution might be the only feasible way to make it work. Was wondering if maybe there were some unused pins on one of the connectors for the Bluetooth amp that might be Audio OUT.
      My "No-Name" CC Speaker
      Kerry's "Silverbacks"
      Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
      The Archers
      Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
      The Gandalf's

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      • #4
        You would probably have to identify where the signal is out of the bluetooth portion of the board, then cut a trace and insert wiring off to the crossover.
        Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
        Wogg Music
        Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat, SuperNova Minimus

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        • #5
          Originally posted by dynamo View Post
          I haven't used one yet but love those new little boards, I like the tpa3118 and aptx in a tiny cheap package. Anyway.. what about building or buying a line out converter to splice into the speaker outputs of the Bluetooth board to feed the .1 board? I'm thinking the same concept as the adapters used in car audio to add an amp to a stock head unit in a car. I think there are diagrams online, pretty sure it is just a simple resistor network.

          Here: http://www.parts-express.com/metra-i...e-rca--265-026
          Or a simple resistor network from the speaker out to the sub in; 10:1 since the chip on the 2 ch amp is set to 20dB gain (10x gain).

          There is also an issue with volume output. These seem to be identical to the Sure Wondom boards and the spec for that board has the TPA3116 gain set at 20db (10x gain). Some have reported low output with a full signal in due to this. Since it is the chip's gain setting, the issue exists for both the BT and wired inputs.

          Quote frankly, given the issues encountered by others, I go with a setup like Gordy's Madeline. Separate amp (with good gain) and separate BT module. You can feed both the L-R and sub amps with the same signal out of the BT module or a wired jack input.

          And if you plan on portabel using the integrated LiPo battery module, realize you'll only be driving the amp with ~12v instead of 19v-24v from a separate PS. That pretty much mandates 4 ohm speakers to get any decent output out of the amp.

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          • #6
            Interesting, I was just reading some reviews on the sure board. On a side note, I see the TPA 3116 is rated to do 4 ohm operation at 21 V, but there is not much out there for decent 21 V bricks, so will a TPA 3116 handle 4 ohms at 24 V since there are plenty of good 24 V bricks available? (Regardless of if it is one of these boards or a standard amp only board)

            Edit: http://www.parts-express.com/yuan-ji...-50w--320-6554 looks like this one is ok with it so I assume 24v is at least minimally acceptable. Perhaps at least if not driven super hard.
            Last edited by dynamo; 12-30-2016, 03:41 PM.

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            • #7
              Kevin, one of the packages that you can get that 'plugs into' that board has the volume pot built into it. This one: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...oards--325-110

              I think you might be able to tap into the output side of that pot and run those lines to the low-pass/preamp board to get your sub output... and it would be regulated by the main pot so... main volume up...sub volume up. Not 100% sure it will work, but I don't see why not. It's a real potentiometer, not an encoder.

              I have that amp and volume control pkg. Maybe I can test it out later tonight if you want to see if it will work?

              TomZ
              Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
              *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

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              • #8
                Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
                Kevin, one of the packages that you can get that 'plugs into' that board has the volume pot built into it. This one: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...oards--325-110

                I think you might be able to tap into the output side of that pot and run those lines to the low-pass/preamp board to get your sub output... and it would be regulated by the main pot so... main volume up...sub volume up. Not 100% sure it will work, but I don't see why not. It's a real potentiometer, not an encoder.

                I have that amp and volume control pkg. Maybe I can test it out later tonight if you want to see if it will work?

                TomZ
                Yea Tom, if you have time to take a look at it that would be great. No rush, I'm just brainstorming and have lots of other things to do before this project. Probably at least a couple of months away. If your solution does work, post it here so others would know. Thanks.
                My "No-Name" CC Speaker
                Kerry's "Silverbacks"
                Ben's Synchaeta's for Mom
                The Archers
                Rick's "db" Desktop CBT Arrays
                The Gandalf's

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
                  Kevin, one of the packages that you can get that 'plugs into' that board has the volume pot built into it. This one: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...oards--325-110

                  I think you might be able to tap into the output side of that pot and run those lines to the low-pass/preamp board to get your sub output... and it would be regulated by the main pot so... main volume up...sub volume up. Not 100% sure it will work, but I don't see why not. It's a real potentiometer, not an encoder.

                  I have that amp and volume control pkg. Maybe I can test it out later tonight if you want to see if it will work?

                  TomZ
                  Tom, IIRC, the amp operates at full volume without the volume pot and I believe the volume pot is changing the resistance in an op-amp gain circuit. Those conclusions were arrived at (by me) after someone tried a similar approach: injecting the signal into the volume pot leads with poor results.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post
                    Tom, IIRC, the amp operates at full volume without the volume pot and I believe the volume pot is changing the resistance in an op-amp gain circuit. Those conclusions were arrived at (by me) after someone tried a similar approach: injecting the signal into the volume pot leads with poor results.
                    https://www.freesound.org/people/Ben.../sounds/73581/

                    Well, I'll give it a shot anyway.

                    TomZ
                    Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                    *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post
                      Tom, IIRC, the amp operates at full volume without the volume pot and I believe the volume pot is changing the resistance in an op-amp gain circuit. Those conclusions were arrived at (by me) after someone tried a similar approach: injecting the signal into the volume pot leads with poor results.
                      Maybe I missed something, I very well could be. Since the amp operates at full volume, could you not grab the input side of the pot to get the signal? This way it is not controlled by the pot that comes with the Dayton amp. This was the sub board would get the full gain as an input and the sub board has an independent gain control to control the volume. This would not inject ay signal into the amp just split the signal.
                      "A dirty shop is an unsafe shop, if you injure yourself in a clean shop you are just stupid" - Coach Kupchinsky

                      The Madeleine
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gordy View Post

                        Maybe I missed something, I very well could be. Since the amp operates at full volume, could you not grab the input side of the pot to get the signal? This way it is not controlled by the pot that comes with the Dayton amp. This was the sub board would get the full gain as an input and the sub board has an independent gain control to control the volume. This would not inject ay signal into the amp just split the signal.
                        The issue is how to get BT out of the 2x50w and deliver a signal to the sub input. The integrated volume pot doesn't attenuate the signal itself, rather, it changes the gain on an op-amp.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Millstonemike View Post
                          The issue is how to get BT out of the 2x50w and deliver a signal to the sub input. The integrated volume pot doesn't attenuate the signal itself, rather, it changes the gain on an op-amp.

                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]n1312387[/ATTACH]
                          That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
                          "A dirty shop is an unsafe shop, if you injure yourself in a clean shop you are just stupid" - Coach Kupchinsky

                          The Madeleine
                          The Roxster
                          Swopes 5.0
                          Acoustic Panels
                          Living Room Make Over

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                          • #14
                            It might be a better idea to use a seperate amp for the L+R channels and a Sure mono amp for the sub. I dabbled in a design a few years ago with this config. The Sure 4.0 BT module has more than enough output gain to supply to both amps.
                            "A dirty shop is an unsafe shop, if you injure yourself in a clean shop you are just stupid" - Coach Kupchinsky

                            The Madeleine
                            The Roxster
                            Swopes 5.0
                            Acoustic Panels
                            Living Room Make Over

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                            • #15
                              Well Mike,

                              You were right I think. I connected a small speaker to the potentiometer leads while it was playing expecting to barely hear anything and I got a pretty massive thump and static of the little 3" woofer I had connected it with. No music on the in or out sides. Guess that won't work. Good call sir!

                              Also, I noticed when I turned the volume up and down with the optional dayton volume board the woofers slowly pumped as if turning the pot created some DC offset situation. One went in and the other speaker moved out. Not even sure if I have them connected properly.... the diagram doesn't really say and all four lines coming from the speaker plug are black!

                              TomZ
                              Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                              *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

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