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C-Note MT Bookshelf Speaker Kit Pair & Other kits

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  • Chris_Perez
    replied
    I haven't been able to hear any noticeable difference with the 0.22 uF cap across L2. Now, I don't claim to have the best ears (too much time around power tools and driving with the windows open I suppose, lol) so the difference may be there, but nothing obvious.

    As jhollander pointed out, the pase shift is extremely minor and the overall response only changes by less than 1 dB. According to the simulations the .22 cap does push the peak down from -20 dB to -40 dB... Really kills it (I'll post the graphs on Monday).

    So, I would say if you have any concern go ahead and add the cap... it definitely doesn't hurt. Also, the cap's leads are plenty long enough that it would be easy to add it if you want to try the system without it first (unless you use gorilla glue to install the crossover like I did in the video, lol...oh yeah, there's a video assembly manual now).

    Oh, and Wogg is right. The .205 connectors aren't necessary, they just fit perfect. Heck, I've opened up some newer Bose speakers and they just tightly wrap the wires around a pin...no solder, no connector, nothing (that is cost savings for 'ya). Actually, solder is my least favorite speaker connection, on occasion the tinsel leads will move slightly causing the leads to slap the cone, ugh.
    Last edited by Chris_Perez; 03-03-2017, 09:43 PM. Reason: I am a terrible typest :)

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  • jhollander
    replied
    The practice is to place a 5 to 10 ohm resistor in series with the the small cap. As wogg pointed out, the resistance in this case doesn't drop to an unreasonable level. I checked the electrical phase and there does not seem to be any reason to use a resistor in this circuit.

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  • Dewmiester
    replied
    Originally posted by jhollander View Post
    Chris you might consider adding a series resistor with that cap as you would have a capacitance load to ground.
    Where would you place the resistor.

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  • Dewmiester
    replied
    For $100 I'm in. Let's do another project.

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  • ronk
    replied
    OK, a .22 cap in parallel with L2 might trap the breakup of the woofer without any adverse effects to the rest of the low pass filtering. I am waiting for my binding posts to arrive before deciding whether I am going to buy some. 22 caps to try it out.

    I ran to woofer full range baffleless to see how the sound and to break them in. They work.

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  • wogg
    replied
    Originally posted by ronk View Post
    Yes Chris, please let us know how that sounds. If it sounds better, I will delay the build and order two 0.22 uF capacitors to break up the aluminium sound. Both my DIY speakers with aluminium midbass; the Overnight sensation with the Hivi drivers and my model 2 sassy with seas aluminium drivers have the .22 caps in parallel with the series inductor to "kill" the aluminium sound. I did think about trying that approach, but thought to myself, nah, it cannot be that easy.
    The parallel LC in line with the woofer creates a really good tank notch filter, I prefer to build that in my crossover designs myself (though I'll admit I'm relatively inexperienced in bringing these to reality). The trick is that it will throw the phase and therefore the summed response and reverse null off if the tank frequency is close to the crossover frequency. In this case, it sounds like the breakup is far enough above the crossover frequency to not have too much of an effect.

    Originally posted by ronk View Post
    One additional question for Chris is, "How important is the .205 " 16-14 Female Disconnect? I forgot to order the female disconnects. I have some leftover 0.110 (so I don't need that size) and some .25. Could I use the .25 disconnect in place of the .205 disconnect?"
    Can't speak for Chris, but the disconnects shouldn't be that important. A pair of pliers will let you adjust the grip of the connector and as long as they're getting some metal and tight your connection will be fine.

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  • ronk
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris_Perez View Post

    Hey Ron,

    When I designed this kit I just knocked the resonant peak down and didn't even try to completely eliminate it. I was just playing with the design files and discovered that just adding a 0.22 uF capacitor in parallel with L2 should pretty much kill the peak all together without affecting anything else. I am going to try it on my pair at home to make sure there are no adverse affects, but it might just be that easy.

    -Chris P

    Yes Chris, please let us know how that sounds. If it sounds better, I will delay the build and order two 0.22 uF capacitors to break up the aluminium sound. Both my DIY speakers with aluminium midbass; the Overnight sensation with the Hivi drivers and my model 2 sassy with seas aluminium drivers have the .22 caps in parallel with the series inductor to "kill" the aluminium sound. I did think about trying that approach, but thought to myself, nah, it cannot be that easy.

    One additional question for Chris is, "How important is the .205 " 16-14 Female Disconnect? I forgot to order the female disconnects. I have some leftover 0.110 (so I don't need that size) and some .25. Could I use the .25 disconnect in place of the .205 disconnect?"

    My C-Note arrived today with a few extra stuff but no binding post. Now I need to wait for the binding post and decide whether I want to have the .22 cap in parallel with the L2. If so, I will have to wait until I can order $100 from PE to get free shipping. I also have to decide on cheap vinyl finish, better viny stuff, paint (but with priming), or stone finish (which looks cool). I have an idea for the next build -- a 4 or 5 inch Tang Band full range in a box. If I go with the 5 inch Tang Band, I will need a jig, while I can use a Holesaw for the 4 inch TB. But the 4 inch TB bamboo paper with neodymium is very pricey. The 4 or 5 inch TB bamboo paper drivers with ferrite magnet is a lot cheaper.

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  • wogg
    replied
    Originally posted by jhollander
    Chris you might consider adding a series resistor with that cap as you would have a capacitance load to ground.
    It's a very small capacitance, in order to get under 8 ohms you'd have to be up over 90kHz.

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  • jhollander
    replied
    Chris you might consider adding a series resistor with that cap as you would have a capacitance load to ground.

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  • Chris_Perez
    replied
    Originally posted by ronk View Post
    One cannot just add a few parts for a notch filter. I suspect the entire low pass (and maybe even the high pass) will have to be redone to have a notch filter. At 1 Centum, I can live without the notch filter.
    Hey Ron,

    When I designed this kit I just knocked the resonant peak down and didn't even try to completely eliminate it. I was just playing with the design files and discovered that just adding a 0.22 uF capacitor in parallel with L2 should pretty much kill the peak all together without affecting anything else. I am going to try it on my pair at home to make sure there are no adverse affects, but it might just be that easy.

    -Chris P

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan Steeves
    replied
    Originally posted by wogg View Post
    Dang... this kit is a deal. I have a sort of similar design on paper with a DS175-8 and ND28F-6 that comes in at $200 for the build. The drivers only account for $30 in additional cost total, and my crossover is equivalently simple second order on both.

    As much as I'd like to with my own design, it's really hard to compete with that cost.

    Precisely why I indulged!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • wogg
    replied
    Dang... this kit is a deal. I have a sort of similar design on paper with a DS175-8 and ND28F-6 that comes in at $200 for the build. The drivers only account for $30 in additional cost total, and my crossover is equivalently simple second order on both.

    As much as I'd like to with my own design, it's really hard to compete with that cost.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan Steeves
    replied
    Originally posted by ronk View Post
    One cannot just add a few parts for a notch filter. I suspect the entire low pass (and maybe even the high pass) will have to be redone to have a notch filter. At 1 Centum, I can live without the notch filter. I tend to listen to youtube a lot and the sound quality of youtube is often so mediocre that speakers do not matter much. My reference speaker sounds terrible with most youtube music -- too much resolution and lousy old Roku. I am not going to try to simulate the crossover based on driver files from PE with software that I don't have to design a crossover that will probably be worse than the current stock. I am building this speaker because I like building speakers as a hobby. I am thinking about another build -- Denova .23 cu ft cabinet with TB w5 2143 bamboo paper. My main problem is cutting the holes for the drivers (and maybe the port) as there are no holesaws that size and I do not have a router nor space for a router.

    My C-Note is still on the UPS truck somewhere. Anyway I will be home much later tonight so I will see it when I get home.


    aah, I see, good insight, thanks for sharing.

    I just bought an awesome DeWalt router kit, with both fixed base and solid base attachments, on sale at Lowes canada. One of the best tools I own...was so incrediibly useful in building my sunflower center channel. Also didn't realize how easy it could be to do intricate things with a router (provided you plan properly of course). Going to use it this time to flush mount the port tube on the back for a nice clean finish.

    Good luck with your build! please post pics when you get the parts, and pics of your build as well! Hopefully you are able to find the right tools. When in doubt - break out the jigsaw! Lips will hide the hole anyways.

    Leave a comment:


  • ronk
    replied
    One cannot just add a few parts for a notch filter. I suspect the entire low pass (and maybe even the high pass) will have to be redone to have a notch filter. At 1 Centum, I can live without the notch filter. I tend to listen to youtube a lot and the sound quality of youtube is often so mediocre that speakers do not matter much. My reference speaker sounds terrible with most youtube music -- too much resolution and lousy old Roku. I am not going to try to simulate the crossover based on driver files from PE with software that I don't have to design a crossover that will probably be worse than the current stock. I am building this speaker because I like building speakers as a hobby. I am thinking about another build -- Denova .23 cu ft cabinet with TB w5 2143 bamboo paper. My main problem is cutting the holes for the drivers (and maybe the port) as there are no holesaws that size and I do not have a router nor space for a router.

    My C-Note is still on the UPS truck somewhere. Anyway I will be home much later tonight so I will see it when I get home.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan Steeves
    replied
    Originally posted by ronk View Post
    Probably for cost reasons, they did not include foam, and more importantly, a notch filter to deal with any potential aluminium driver breakup. According to Chris P, the designer, he crossed the woofer at 3 k so that the breakup is 20+dB below reference to reduce cone breakup effects. This is so we can get the deal of one C-note aka hundred bucks. Foam and additional crossover parts will raise price to above 100 bucks. Foam and fill are stuff I can easily add and is no biggie. I would prefer Baltic birch plywood as that is nicer and does not smell like mdf, but I suspect Baltic us more expensive than mdf.

    My C-note arrives today.

    Hey Ronk, that makes sense.

    As I am not yet at the stage of crossover design (my next learning objective, but after I finish my part-time MBA in 2 months I will actually have time for this), I am wondering if you will be adding a notch filter to your crossovers for these? It would be easy enough to obtain parts locally and probably not too expensive either. If it isn't worth the trouble and they perform well, I may skip this step. Their main purpose is surround duty, with occasional mono output for hosting guests.

    I can get some foam locally at addison electronic store, I may buy a few pieces for good measure. I assume most PSA 1/2'' foam would have similar effect? This is the one I have available, looks simple and inexpensive;
    https://addison-electronique.com/mou...nte-17643.html

    In my case I'll be veneering all my speakers with walnut veneer, as they are all raw MDF right now. Only annoyance is the baffle roundovers, which are too small to vener; will probably just router the roundovers out after assembly, buy walnut quarter rounds to replace, and veneer the rest.

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