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What drivers do you wish Dayton would create?

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  • #61
    I'd like to second the desire to see more woofers designed specifically for acoustic suspension designs. Woofers with small magnets and loosy-goosey suspension of the type that were used by AR, KLH, and the dozens of other Boston area manufacturers. With either cloth or rubber surrounds, please.

    Also on the list for those of us who still think big is beautiful: 12" and 15" coaxials with horns in the center of the woofer, like the old Altec 604-type.

    GeeDeeEmm

    Comment


    • #62
      Wow its been nearly five years!

      Esoteric & Epique shortcomings
      Dayton has released the Epique E160CF-8 and E220CF-8 which have been discontinued. I believe these were great ideas and truly beautiful drivers. They didn't sell too great because the 8" had too low xmax and the 5" had a 15db breakup at 4-5khz which scared away users.

      The Esoterics are still around. I believe the lack of a 4-ohm model is really hurting both. They are a true 8 ohm load so they lack sensitivity forcing the user to go TMM or MTM to maintain good sensitivity. Could use a cone redesign.

      Esoteric and Epique successors
      The Epique DVC MMAG Extended Range Subwoofers are great and no complaints.

      However, for midwoofers and midrange's I think Dayton Audio really needs to start thinking like Purifi and SB Acoustics. Release a paper or poly cone Epique successor first. Then using the same driver slowly add aluminum, glass fiber, carbon fiber, ceramic, textreme, etc. cones.

      Look at what Purifi and SB Acoustics did. Purifi released a paper cone then released aluminum. SB Acoustics started with their NRX line then added NRX2 paper, NAC aluminum, CAC ceramic, and CRC carbon fiber. What is great is that their aluminum, NRX2 paper and ceramic cones could possibly use the same crossover with very minor adjustments as their responses are quite similar and use the same motor. The Satori line released Papyrus paper then textreme once the original drivers proved itself.

      This is how I believe Dayton should move forward with their premium lines. Release a premium line with an easy to use cone material then branch out using the same motor once the original has a sterling reputation

      My personal wish list
      1) A 2" midrange to cover 800hz to 5khz which is very important for ribbons such as the RAAL 70-10D or smaller Dayton AMT's as they operate best when crossed high. An inverted dome similar to the C51-6-286 CELL Ceramic Mid-Tweeter would be ideal so it doesn't protrude. Very low CTC spacing, shield, no frame with o-rings (optional frame). Also, include a back chamber so there is one less chamber to build in the speaker.


      The C51 Cell has the lowest THD I have seen in such a driver for its operating range, a CSD which is impeccable, and an unusual 93db 2.83V sensitivity. I believe such a driver is needed since domes like the Volt VM572, MDM55, and RS52 are simply too big or ugly. Accuton wants $655 for each driver, they must be smoking something but it does fill a niche. They need competition.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	AccutonC51.jpg Views:	0 Size:	59.0 KB ID:	1484876Click image for larger version  Name:	C51 speakers.jpg Views:	0 Size:	390.2 KB ID:	1484877

      2) Bliesma has released their 3" domes. Great CTC spacing, pretty and doesn't protrude too much, and unlike the Tang Band and ScanSpeak 3" domes they were smart enough to add a protective screen. Their drivers are simply too expensive. Once again they need competition so the masses can afford.

      A Dayton 3" textreme dome would be awesome with a motor to match anything else out there. Probably the closest to beryllium right now without the super high cost. Already being used by Eminence in their compression drivers and SB Acoustics. Textreme would allow pushing the breakup response and controlling the dome better than something like silk or aluminum as seen in the picture below.

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      Textreme dome breakup on the right compared to a traditional dome.
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      Last edited by Krillin; 04-06-2022, 07:59 PM. Reason: Grammar

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      • #63
        The SS Discovery dome has an INSIDE grill under the dome for protection.
        Wolf
        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

        *InDIYana event website*

        Photobucket pages:
        https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

        Comment


        • #64
          Krillin do you have an opinion on, or dislike the RS52 dome mids?

          Comment


          • #65
            The soft dome Dayton RS52 could have been a Morel mdm55 beater, if they kept using the fibreglass stuffing and copper shorting rings that were in the original hard dome version.
            Rather than use cheaper materials, they should have increased the price.

            Comment


            • #66
              Can they be modded to be the original version?
              I suppose you cant mod a copper ring into it as easy as fiberglass dampening

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by bassman_soundking View Post
                Can they be modded to be the original version?
                I suppose you cant mod a copper ring into it as easy as fiberglass dampening
                I cut the bottom off the metal dome version, glued a funnel on the bottom, filled with rolled up from fibreglass exhaust baffle wadding. It's more dense than loft insulation and comes in sheets of about 1/2" thick. It actually gave a flatter frequency response than the original version.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by bassman_soundking View Post
                  Krillin do you have an opinion on, or dislike the RS52 dome mids?
                  The RS52 has mixed results. On Zaph and Mark's IMD tests it did extraordinarily well surpassing the Morel MDM55 and rivaling the older Accuton C50. However on the AudioExpress measurements it falls far behind the EM1308 and Volt VM527. On HifiCompass it looks okay but is not exceptional.
                  https://www.supersonic.se/dokument/Morel%20EM1308%20Test%20Voicecoil.pdf
                  https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archiv...2013_8_Aug.pdf
                  https://audioxpress.com/article/test...vm527-midrange


                  The RS52 along with the EM1308 have a very large flange which hurts it when pairing with small format ribbons and AMT tweeters which ideally would cross high at 4-5khz. The Aurum Cantus AST2560, RAAL 70-20XR, Viawave SRT-7, and Bozhen CQ76 can cross low with low distortion. Using these ribbons however has a serious drawback which is vertical dispersion, get 30° off axis and the highs disappear. Now use a RAAL 70-10D, Fountek CD1.0, Dayton AMT2-4 and the highs will still be there vertically and they are much happier crossing at 5khz when it comes to distortion. Sure the RAAL 70-10D can cross at 3khz but it won't be too happy.

                  Let's compare the vertical off axis of the Dayton AMT2-4 and Dayton AMT3-4. The smaller AMT is much better vertically.
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                  There are the MDM55 (eye sore) and CAM558 which are well loved and don't protrude. They are not SOTA in distortion but sound good and can be poked by kids. The closest in performance to the Accuton 2" drivers is the Tectonic TEBM46C20N-4B which is difficult to mount and not as beautiful. Philharmonic Audio uses them to great effect but lets be honest here, they would use Accuton if they didn't cost $1,300 a pair plus tax and they would pick something over the Tectonic in a heartbeat if it had great performance and looked better.
                  Click image for larger version

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                  Sometimes a square face plate looks better. Sometimes as seen in the Vapor Sound speaker in my previous post a small ctc round driver looks better. Keep the square mounting plate optional but definitely have one.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Here is a picture of a speaker using the RS52 dome mid. See how large the flange is:

                    Click image for larger version

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                    • #70
                      Thanks for the feedback guys.
                      And yeah it does look ridiculously big and awkward seeing in in that build.

                      Ive looked at the Tectonic and read some recommendations.
                      I have read a few reviews that the MDM55 burn out easily.
                      It looks like the CAM558 is the same as the MDM with a new face?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Thanks for the feedback guys.
                        And yeah it does look ridiculously big and awkward seeing in in that build.

                        Ive looked at the Tectonic and read some recommendations.

                        I have read a few reviews that the MDM55 burn out easily.
                        It looks like the CAM558 is the same as the MDM with a new face?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I think a lot of users ask too much of the MDM55, but it's a gem used optimally.
                          i don't like either RS52, but the FN would be my pick of the 2 due to the blemish current AN models have.

                          I still think the old Usher 2" 9845 is my fave.

                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                          *InDIYana event website*

                          Photobucket pages:
                          https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I used the MDM55 in the canTiLena and liked it a bunch. I never burned it out and can't imagine how anyone could do that short of Rock Concert SPL levels. I wasn't real thrilled with the RS52 I used in the TuLines.
                            Paul

                            Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                            I think a lot of users ask too much of the MDM55, but it's a gem used optimally.
                            i don't like either RS52, but the FN would be my pick of the 2 due to the blemish current AN models have.

                            I still think the old Usher 2" 9845 is my fave.

                            Wolf

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              The MDM55 always interested me.
                              The reviews scared me.
                              I may buy some or the newer line for a 3-way eventually.

                              I have the RS52AN and think the crazy peak they have around 10 or 12k might be why they aren't well liked besides their faceplate footprint.
                              I bought them used really cheap and always seemed to make my ears say no more.
                              i was hoping it was just my xo skills that made them sound unpleasant.

                              I haven't seen any Usher 2" mids, but i doubt I wouldn't like them if I did.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Edit: For the canTiLena crossover, Rick used corners for the MDM55 of ~760 Hz and ~4.8 kHz with 4th-order slopes.
                                Paul

                                Rick Craig did the crossover design for the canTiLena because he had a special affinity for the MDM55. In fact, for a number of years, Rick had me withhold the crossover details from publication because he considered them to be proprietary. He eventually allowed me to release those details. The reviews of the MDM55 that scared you may not have been based on optimum crossover designs for the MDM55. Later on I had Rick design the crossovers for a couple more of my builds. Our community lost a good person and resource with Rick's passing.
                                Paul

                                Originally posted by bassman_soundking View Post
                                The MDM55 always interested me.
                                The reviews scared me.
                                I may buy some or the newer line for a 3-way eventually.

                                I have the RS52AN and think the crazy peak they have around 10 or 12k might be why they aren't well liked besides their faceplate footprint.
                                I bought them used really cheap and always seemed to make my ears say no more.
                                i was hoping it was just my xo skills that made them sound unpleasant.

                                I haven't seen any Usher 2" mids, but i doubt I wouldn't like them if I did.
                                Last edited by Paul K.; 04-08-2022, 01:06 PM.

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