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Does this work for a three-way?? (Paging Jeff Bagby)

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  • Does this work for a three-way?? (Paging Jeff Bagby)

    Hello,

    Call me an optimist, if you like!

    Reading this thread:

    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...revisited-pics
    Perry Mason talking to his dentist:

    "Do you swear to take the tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth, so help you God?"

  • #2
    That order arrangement works well for flat baffle arranged drivers a good portion of the time. One order difference introduces the extra phase rotation to align the phase.

    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #3
      That "rule of thumb" isn't necessarily a good one. You have to consider the behavior of the drivers in their overlap region. For example, if you have a cone mid that offers smooth extension to 100Hz, applying a 3rd order HP filter may or may not result in a 4th order slope at the XO point with the woofer.

      I've used 2nd order on the woofer, 1st on the mid HP, 2nd on the mid LP and 2nd on the tweeter HP resulting in LR2, LR4 slopes.
      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

      Comment


      • #4
        That "rule of thumb" isn't necessarily a good one. You have to consider the behavior of the drivers in their overlap region. For example, if you have a cone mid that offers smooth extension to 100Hz, applying a 3rd order HP filter may or may not result in a 4th order slope at the XO point with the woofer.



        I've used 2nd order on the woofer, 1st on the mid HP, 2nd on the mid LP and 2nd on the tweeter HP resulting in LR2, LR4 slopes.
        But IF you stick to Acoustic slopes and design the XOs to meet the targets?

        Regards// Lasse
        Perry Mason talking to his dentist:

        "Do you swear to take the tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth, so help you God?"

        Comment


        • #5
          That "rule of thumb" isn't necessarily a good one. You have to consider the behavior of the drivers in their overlap region. For example, if you have a cone mid that offers smooth extension to 100Hz, applying a 3rd order HP filter may or may not result in a 4th order slope at the XO point with the woofer.

          I've used 2nd order on the woofer, 1st on the mid HP, 2nd on the mid LP and 2nd on the tweeter HP resulting in LR2, LR4 slopes.
          Nothing to disagree with there!

          I was referring to electrical slopes, Lasse.

          If you stick to acoustic slopes, then the ROT really doesn't apply anyway as the model progresses.

          Later,
          Wolf
          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

          *InDIYana event website*

          Photobucket pages:
          https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Wolf View Post

            Nothing to disagree with there!

            I was referring to electrical slopes, Lasse.

            If you stick to acoustic slopes, then the ROT really doesn't apply anyway as the model progresses.

            Later,
            Wolf
            Hello Wolf,

            I was under the impression that all of this topic was about acoustic slopes and orders. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something here.

            What does "ROT" mean?

            Regards//lasse

            Perry Mason talking to his dentist:

            "Do you swear to take the tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth, so help you God?"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by lasse View Post
              Hello Wolf,

              I was under the impression that all of this topic was about acoustic slopes and orders. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something here.

              What does "ROT" mean?

              Regards//lasse
              ROT . . . Rule of Thumb.

              It is about acoustic slopes. But mixing them when acoustic offsets are minimal with respect to the wavelengths involved is not a good idea. For example, at 300Hz, the acoustic offset between a woofer and midrange on a flat baffle will only be a tiny fraction of the wavelength involved. In that case, a 2nd order slope on the woofer would not sum properly with a third order slope on the mid. You'd really want the same slopes for both.
              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

              Comment


              • #8
                Agreed.
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                Comment


                • #9
                  Perry Mason talking to his dentist:

                  "Do you swear to take the tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth, so help you God?"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I personally like 2nd order transitions but that's not always possible at the higher frequencies. Using drivers with extended frequency responses and large overlap regions, 2nd order XOs are possible using few components, but you really need to have acoustically aligned mids and tweeters to pull it off. If they aren't, 4th order on the mid-tweeter XO with slope mixing can make it all work.
                    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                    Comment

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