A good tweeter to match 5" SB Acoustics Magnesium Woofers

[dlr]

It's an SB26 that measured higher than the manufacturer's specs, about 850Hz. You can estimate it using that.

dlr

[bill poster]

We are a community of speaker enthusiasts, people come here to learn and share in a friendly and polite environment, so I would say it is quite rude to call someone's design wrong, bad, poor choices, etc simply because they have made design decisions that don't agree with your design opinions.

It needs to be said, because of the above PE lost alot of knowledgeable people who were generous and happy to answer questions daily. So it doesn't sit well with the rest of us who want to learn about the hobby if a few people mess up the PE community spirit

[dlr]

Given all these, you were able to push the tweeter low to meet up with the woofer off axis. However remove any one of these, and when you have differing off axis dispersion to deal with, IME its still better to use a soft knee and wider overlap.

I didn't address this in my first response. While I agree that when it's possible to use a wide overlap that it can provide a smoother off-axis and power response. When you can select the drivers that allows for selecting a match that allow is. For my 2-way above I was given the drivers by zaph on the condition that I publish a design. I went farther and added the detail of my design process for it. You really can't do a low slope crossover primarily because that midwoofer has a rather nasty peak/breakup area that will be too high on-axis. Higher order slope was necessary for that one. I added a droop into the target after initial auditioning, but I add that to the target, usually leaving one or the other individual drivers fixed to maintain a semblance of the target function. I don't recall specifically, but given the need to keep the midwoofer breakup down to at least -20db, I probably only allowed the tweeter to vary which would lower it's output, therefore limit to some degree it's off-axis flare and the total power response.

With a lot of the average drivers used, likely based on cost, this is a common problem I'm sure. I've not had any luck with that sort of driver and getting what sounds good to me if I used low slopes. Then there's the problem of tweeter power handling that has to be considered. Not any easy compromise to decide.

dlr

[xmax]

I choose my wording poorly and I apologize again. People have crapped all over my post for at least 12 years
on this forum no big deal. The filter is the same as the Zaph ZMV5 minus the (2 ohm!) shunt and lower series
resistor, The tweeter has a very close Fs and Z with similar Z peak as Fs, clearly a coincidence
because the Zaph design is about half the impedance.

Still proving there are many very different ways of doing things.
I also find it interesting that the cap coil ratio is almost exactly text book Bessel which is
favored for it's Q and fast settling time, @ 4 ohm which Zaph only changed slightly for I'm guessing
the transfer function, I'm sure another coincidence.

I admit I came off like a mega jerk face and I'm going to work on that.
I will some day post a design for the original poster and you guys
can all tell me how terrible it is and get more of that out of your system.
Like lots of you have in the past.

I'm guessing a few people did learn from this (at the minimum lively) thread.
If it will make you guys go back to all getting along I will do you the favor of
never returning. Or change my name again and try to bite my tongue.

[Billet]

I have to admit wincing more than once at some of the verbage in this thread, but in the end lots of good discussion and ideas came out of it. I actually thought it was becoming more civilized in the past day or two. We do not all have to agree with each other, what is the good in that? We can all learn something from somebody.

[DDF]

I didn't address this in my first response. While I agree that when it's possible to use a wide overlap that it can provide a smoother off-axis and power response. When you can select the drivers that allows for selecting a match that allow is. For my 2-way above I was given the drivers by zaph on the condition that I publish a design. I went farther and added the detail of my design process for it. You really can't do a low slope crossover primarily because that midwoofer has a rather nasty peak/breakup area that will be too high on-axis.
dlr

If the peak is relatively stable in frequency over angle, it's handy to notch it out by splitting the main low pass inductor in two and adding a small cap across one. Still allows broad overlap and well controlled off axis. I just updated the design spec for my Napoleons showing how this can be done over at diyaudio, and the off axis is crazy good all things considered with tons of tweeter power handling

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/234674-napoleons-compact-2-punches-weight-5.html#post5308848

Anyone working with the W4-1720 would probably find the measurements and crossover recommendations interesting. That's one high maintenance little woofer!

[xmax]

I don't see your 2 choke low pass filter, what am I missing? I use the W6-1721 and it can also get a little nasty,
my monitors are sold as a system with the amp so I can cheat with a mild mid dip circuit (in the amp), but since a lot of
clients like the more forward mid range there is a switch to by-pass it. As a smart person said earlier in this
thread I am too stupid to even know I am stupid so I don't know any better to know any better, none.

[DDF]

I don't see your 2 choke low pass filter, what am I missing? I use the W6-1721 and it can also get a little nasty,
my monitors are sold as a system with the amp so I can cheat with a mild mid dip circuit, but since a lot of
clients like the more forward mid range there is a switch to by-pass it. As a smart person said earlier in this
thread I am too stupid to even know I am stupid so I don't know any better to know any better, none.

Look at "Part 1" pdf posted tonight, the crossover is published there. The coil is split into two, both coils implement traps, one only damped by the inductor's resistance and used to notch the nasties 8 to 12 kHz, the second damped with a parallel resistor to provide a low Q dip ~ 1 to 2 kHz and get rid of the excessive peaking there in the driver. Both coils still add up with the cap to ground to make a nice low pass.

Also check out at the huge resistor before the tweeter and still the massive roll off of the high pass (no distortion generator there, LoL!)

[xmax]

Interesting it seems the resistor is the only thing keeping both the chokes and caps "split"
Clearly the difference with your pad/transfer resistor is the higher frequency third order filter...
Distortion generator, that's funny.

[dlr]

If the peak is relatively stable in frequency over angle, it's handy to notch it out by splitting the main low pass inductor in two and adding a small cap across one. Still allows broad overlap and well controlled off axis.

I never thought of it as splitting an inductor. Separate traps were avoided in this instance largely because I was trying to keep the crossover cost to a minimum, although the optimization process can result in "traps" as part of the final crossover due to transfer function needs.

I like traps, I used them, but my work flow in that case is to first model a trap only to linearize that spot in the raw driver response, then I work on the crossover proper. Using the optimizer in CALSOD or SoundEasy I then usually allow the trap to float. Sometimes they eliminate an element or two, sometimes an entire trap. So in the end I'm not creating any particular part of the crossover and leaving it for some specific function. Traps usually never remain unchanged and ratios of components are meaningless other than what the optimization process results in. Jeff's PCD and my WinPCD both provide the option of initializing a filter section for a target type, electrically, as a starting point. Those are the ideal "ratios" as defined by the target function, but they will always vary widely when optimizing, as you know, due to the driver response, electrical and acoustical. Only the acoustic output matters in the end. All of which you know.

dlr

[xmax]

These inductors actually had a third tap...

[xmax]

I am too a believer in "broad overlap" I think it can make the 2 drivers sound more cohesive.
That said some designers prefer extra steep filters with hardly any overlap and this approach
can also sound good...

[dlr]

Interesting it seems the resistor is the only thing keeping both the chokes and caps "split"

This comment is clear evidence that you really don't understand crossover filters. Even though DDF fully described the function of each.

[Clearly the difference with your pad/transfer resistor is the higher frequency third order filter...Distortion generator, that's funny.

And this one as well, a repeat of earlier nonsense.

dlr

[xmax]

1 The resistor is there for that very specific reason, 2 The values of the high pass are drastically different
and so is the transfer function hence the level being very low at Fs. I get it, do you?

[Waboo]

So kendomusic (OP), You seem to have maybe given up, and that's understandable. With all the needless bickering and bs name calling from some members which has created a complete derailing of your well intended thread, I have to ask; did you decide on what tweeter you might want to use.

I'm somewhat interested in the new 6" ceramic version SB17CAC-08 and am wondering about a good match. Maybe Hiquphon's?