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  • Kinda interesting

    http://www.audiodrom.net/en/as-we-se...a-flat-line-be
    Guess xmax's age.

    My guess: 15. His grammar is passable. His trolling is good.

  • #2
    Surprising editorial admission that everybody has a built-in bias, even them. I don't have an "ideal" or even good listening room. Few real people do. We have furniture, space restraints, livability issues and cleaning to deal with. There is also the Law of Diminishing Returns factor. It's surprising that anyone can agree any design "sounds better", given the variables involved. 

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    • #3
      What they haven't considered here is non-linear distortion - even a very ragged room response can't hide the fact that one speaker may be 20dB lower in non-linear distortion than another. How good a speaker sounds is a balance of linear and non-linear distortion. Linear distortion (frequency response) can be tweaked, even without modifying the speakers - i.e. by re-positioning the speakers or applying some EQ. Non-linear distortion (harmonic distortion, intermodulation distortion) you are stuck with. A speaker with bad non-linear distortion will always sound bad no matter what you try to do to the frequency response.

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      • #4
        You know what is really interesting is that our ears kind of self-program.  I was listening to a show about hearing and how the ear works.  The ear can actually pinpoint certain frequencies it likes and what to hear and the brain will interpret the data.  Which is why the healthy brain can filter out conversations in a restaurant.  

        So one reason we may like certain speakers is that is what we have programmed our ears to like, while other speakers may sound flat, but great to other people.  I wish I knew more, but it was very interesting. the program was about improving hearing aids, but a lot of it made sense when listening to a speakers as well.  
        Just another hobbyiest.

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        • #5
          What that mainly reveals is that the more expensive the speaker the better Stereophile likes it. Since they feel the same way about cables IMO they have no credibility. Now consider this:
          http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/0...o-product.html
          www.billfitzmaurice.com
          www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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          • #6
            A couple comments. Everybody has their sonic preference; if that preference is not for "accurate" reproduction, in whatever way and for whatever reason, the loudspeakers can serve as special effects boxes that remaster everything in the manner the listener prefers. Is that bad? It's not really hi-fi then, but who am I to judge? Still, I'd rather avoid that. My other comment is that since a listener's ears can get trained to accept various frequency distortions as normal sounding, it's important to have a decent reference, especially if you're reviewing or voicing a speaker. I use fairly flat headphones (AKG K702) as a sanity check, and go from there.
            Francis

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            • #7
              Floyd Toole has a great lecture on youtube which covers a lot of this material. He describes the way subjective responses are taken into account at Harman, using blind tests. Their testing protocol, which combines measurements with objectively considered subjective impressions is for me the standard for speaker testing methodology. 

              Troels Gravesen has made some similar comments about stereophile measurements - I find them lacking, only because I design speakers, and you need a lot more than an axial frequency response and some in room averages to do that. Troels comments that if he designed a speaker that looked like these 'class A' responses, nobody would build them. 

              The DIY community really is ahead of the 'audiophile' community at this point, in my opinion. The nature of our discussion tends to lead us to make very technically accurate speakers, yet nobody wants anything boring in their living room. As a result, we have designs which are very flat, with smooth power response and super low distortion, which still sound very enjoyable. We can't really ******** each other since the only way we have to communicate our designs is to avow every aspect of their performance.

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              • #8
                I think John Atkinson is still somewhat respectable he calls out problems and likes plenty of 
                inexpensive speakers. There are straight whores writing for the magazine as well. 
                I read something where they (Harmon I think) put different color grills on the same speakers and all
                10 panelist disliked the sound (or something like that!)  

                One thing that does not come up enough is the phase relation between the drivers, you can get 
                very flat on axis response with terrible phase cancelations, they will certainly sound bad and 
                the off axis measurements will be very different! 
                Guess xmax's age.

                My guess: 15. His grammar is passable. His trolling is good.

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