Passive Studio Monitor Design with Active Crossover - Need Opinions

[STIchris722]

I recently got a job where I have my own office and I'm ready to build a set of studio monitors; it's long overdue! The plan is to use an Ashly SRA 4150 4x150W convection cooled class D amplifier, and an Ashly XR1001 active stereo crossover. I already have that gear so I'm sticking with that as I prefer active crossovers to passive (don't hate).

My goal is to do an 8" driver in a bass reflex cabinet with some sort of high frequency driver. As far as woofers, I've been looking at Dayton reference, Dayton Epique, Aurum Cantus, HiVi, etc.

I have been looking at the new aluminum domes from Dayton, the peerless dual ring radiator, and some of the fountek ribbons.

As far as a budget for the speaker components, I'm thinking less than a thousand dollars to make the pair. Materials can be extra.

I'm going for something like the attached images. I've owned Presonus monitors before, M-Audio, Yamaha, and the Presonus always sounded the best to my ears. Even better than the Adam Audio models I have heard. I've had the e44, e66, e8, and r80 of the Presonus stuff and I like it all, but I want to build my own set. I should clarify I am not worried about a completely flat response in the sense that a typical studio monitor has(for accurately reproducing audio for recording without coloration or eq from the system). Does anyone have any recommendations on woofer choice and tweeter combos? What would you tune these babies at? I don't want to run a powered sub in my office. I'm not trying to piss the world off. The only reason I want 8" woofers is because all of the studio monitors I have heard with larger woofers sound fuller to me. I realize people do things with small speakers, but I prefer larger woofers for DR 2-ways.

[guitar maestro]

A 8" 2-way is great for a studio monitor design for an office. I use Legacy Audio Studio HD's in my office at work. Sound great, especially with that AMT tweeter. ;)










I would also consider:

BEYMA 8P300Fe/N
B&C 8FG64
18 Sound 8MB500
CIARE NDK8-3
CIARE HW205
CIARE FXC8-3
FAITAL PRO 8RS250
FAITAL PRO 8PR200

I have this weird hunch (well OK, from all my testing of 10" midbasses, lol) that when Ciare says theirs is "low distortion", they mean it! I would be willing to bet from that list the Ciare would give all the rest a run for their money. As you can see, I like the "pro-audio" stuff, but I didn't just pick them because they look cool. I picked them because I like their T/S parameter set that they have. They have a T/S parameter set that is more "home audio-ish" than the other "PA style" T/S parameter sets. Namely lower Fs, and higher Qts.

[tom_s]

Choose your drivers carefully. That Ashley crossover will only give you a textbook electrical slope (probably LR4) and that rarely works to hit your acoustic targets. You can probably forget aluminum woofers unless you plan to deploy passive notch filters. The Ashley also doesn't provide any control in the time domain, so you'll have to account for driver offset some other way.

You could solve all these problems with a miniDSP or like unit. Are you involved in Pro-Sound? Maybe pick up a used BSS Soundweb unit for cheap and learn to program it. The guys over at ProSoundWeb claim the BSS stuff sounds notably better than most of the lower priced DBX DSP boxes.

[STIchris722]

Tom -- I didn't consider that; thank you for bringing that to my attention. Would it make more sense to get a Protea unit (similar to a DBX drive rack, but more analog sounding)? I wasn't thinking I needed to get this complex, but you're bringing up a good point. Does it make more sense to build a passive crossover? I have the software and test equipment to do it, but never have.

Take a look at the picture I have attached where it talks about the 'response' control. Would that help any of what you are talking about?

Thanks,
Chris

[STIchris722]

A 8" 2-way is great for a studio monitor design for an office. I use Legacy Audio Studio HD's in my office at work. Sound great, especially with that AMT tweeter. ;)

I would also consider:

BEYMA 8P300Fe/N
B&C 8FG64
18 Sound 8MB500
CIARE NDK8-3
CIARE HW205
CIARE FXC8-3
FAITAL PRO 8RS250
FAITAL PRO 8PR200

I have this weird hunch (well OK, from all my testing of 10" midbasses, lol) that when Ciare says theirs is "low distortion", they mean it! I would be willing to bet from that list the Ciare would give all the rest a run for their money. As you can see, I like the "pro-audio" stuff, but I didn't just pick them because they look cool. I picked them because I like their T/S parameter set that they have. They have a T/S parameter set that is more "home audio-ish" than the other "PA style" T/S parameter sets. Namely lower Fs, and higher Qts.

How do you like the AMT? I have always wanted to try one, but don't know much about them. The line made by Fountek have always appealed to me.

[tom_s]

Tom -- I didn't consider that; thank you for bringing that to my attention. Would it make more sense to get a Protea unit (similar to a DBX drive rack, but more analog sounding)? I wasn't thinking I needed to get this complex, but you're bringing up a good point. Does it make more sense to build a passive crossover? I have the software and test equipment to do it, but never have.

Take a look at the picture I have attached where it talks about the 'response' control. Would that help any of what you are talking about?

Thanks,
Chris

They state the Response control doesn't change the actual slope, so it still won't solve the fact that many drivers only need a 2nd order electrical filter to hit an LR4 acoustic target. Still way too limiting from my perspective.

've never worked with the Protea - heard many good things about them but couldn't afford one back when I was doing live mixing. If it offers multiple options for filter types, some parametric EQ, and delay adjustment, you should be set. I worked with Charlie Laub's Active Crossover Designer back when I had a Behringer DCX2496. You might look into that if you haven't already.

[guitar maestro]

How do you like the AMT? I have always wanted to try one, but don't know much about them. The line made by Fountek have always appealed to me.

I am forever in love with them. Transient response is outstanding. I listen to a lot of guitar and the attack [on the strings] it brings out on fast scale licks and arpeggiated runs is phenomenal. Cymbals hits are precise, distinct, and with individually discernable rolling shimmers that are characteristic of each of them.

[skatz]

Which AMT are you referring to?

[guitar maestro]

Which AMT are you referring to?

Elac and Hygeia.

[xmax]

Tom_S brings up a good point about the active XO, you also have to consider there is often active eq
or DSP in probably all active monitors so straight txt book slopes will not compensate FR anomalies
or baffle step. That said I often use a combo of active filters and passive "shaping" to get outstanding
results for my clients (recording engineers). I am now listening to Satori 9.5" woofers and the Peerless
DA32TX00-8 with a active XO and no shaping or eq and they sound pretty great. I can also recommend
the Wavecor TW030WA11 and SB ceramic woofers for such a application.

[STIchris722]

Tom_S brings up a good point about the active XO, you also have to consider there is often active eq
or DSP in probably all active monitors so straight txt book slopes will not compensate FR anomalies
or baffle step. That said I often use a combo of active filters and passive "shaping" to get outstanding
results for my clients (recording engineers). I am now listening to Satori 9.5" woofers and the Peerless
DA32TX00-8 with a active XO and no shaping or eq and they sound pretty great. I can also recommend
the Wavecor TW030WA11 and SB ceramic woofers for such a application.

Does the shaping come after the speaker is built so that it can be measured with a microphone?

[xmax]

Exactly, as Bill F pointqed out in a recent post of a HP circuit, some call it a contour circuit. A good example would be if the tweeter
(or woofer) is putting out too much midrange, you could set the active xo for your best response and add passive
"contour" to make it even better.

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Cal...rNetwork/Help/

[STIchris722]

How would you build something like this:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...studio-monitor

That what be an awesome studio monitor, but it is not worth that kind of money to me. What components would you use to build something equivalent?

[xmax]

Focal is very good at marketing.

[spasticteapot]

The B&C 8PS21 is a great driver for a very small box, but it does have an inconvenient lack of bass - that said, . The Vifa NE225W and Beyma TPL-150 AMT were used to great effect in a 2-way by Vapor, I think - the Beyma is a behemoth of a tweeter, but it certainly does seem to perform.

Would it make more sense to get a Protea unit (similar to a DBX drive rack, but more analog sounding)?

A MiniDSP would do what you want for an awful lot less money. The "HD" models have the processing power to use FIR filters with no phase shift, if you're into that sort of thing.