How do your speaker designs usually begin?

[Ray Tremblay]

How do your speaker designs usually begin? Just wondering what path you guys take to get to a speaker design idea that you deem worthy to build?

I only need to look at the size of the room and I'm basically done. With active signal processing, I know I can force the drivers to do what I want.

After close to 30 years of being an audio nut and trying a lot of different things in pro, club, car, and home audio, I've developed a very methodical approach. I'm dead set on what is basically a standardized modular system that scales up or down in size based on room dimensions. There is a little bit of flexibility to my approach but I do have three basic requirements that I will not deviate from.

1) The system must be active
(typically 3 way but may require **4 way under certain circumstances**)
2) A MiniDSP 4x10 HD must be the heart of the system
3) Subs in sealed enclosures must be used as the woofers

I prefer to only use high sensitivity mids and tweeters from the Scan Speak Revelator or Ellipticor lines. Scan Speak Revelator subs are the preference. I'm willing to substitute in Satori neodymium tweeters and mids and Dayton Reference series subs to meet a budget constraint. (**Dayton Ultimax subs will be used when a 4 way system is required**) After that, it's all in the tuning. I can easily force the response I want.

This combination of design trade offs allows for a relatively small foot print, full range system that can play silly loud while staying extremely clean and detailed with a level of musical realism that is down right stunning. Bigger rooms get higher sensitivity drivers or multiples of each to reach the required sound pressure levels.

[martyh]

Thump- you see my rating, right? Yep- I'm nuts too. Marty and I have this kind of back and forth all the time.
Later,
Wolf

No we don't. I have no idea who that Mr. Wolf person is, but apparently he's not a very nice guy.




PS, he still owes me a beer from 2009. Cheeseheads never forget about beer!

[Thump]

Thump- you see my rating, right? Yep- I'm nuts too. Marty and I have this kind of back and forth all the time.
Later,
Wolf

You were most definitely included in my unspoken list - there are several in it no doubt.

[Wolf]

Thump- you see my rating, right? Yep- I'm nuts too. Marty and I have this kind of back and forth all the time.
Later,
Wolf

[Thump]

You're already a little nuts, Cheesehead!
Wolf

From what I've read across this board over the last 4 years, most if not every single one of the guru speaker, electrical and other engineers with endless knowledge from reading a "LOC" worth of information are definitely nuts to varying degree. Or would that simply be considered eccentric?

Regardless why, the rest of us are very grateful, so keep the nut factor going strong please.

[Wolf]

You're already a little nuts, Cheesehead!
Wolf

[martyh]

Similar to what others have mentioned above, I like to make full-scale driver, baffle, and other small part templates out of old pizza and cereal boxes and then create tentative speaker mock ups on a full scale paper baffle board. I guess you would call this full-scale doodling. It is a little more work up front, but it helps me to avoid mistakes later on.

Yeah, it's amazing what solid pre-planning helps avoid as you move down the build road. Having everything predetermined means not having to worry about what and how. I still have no idea as to how I'm managing the feet on latest build....and it's making me a little nuts!

[4thtry]

Similar to what others have mentioned above, I like to make full-scale driver, baffle, and other small part templates out of old pizza and cereal boxes and then create tentative speaker mock ups on a full scale paper baffle board. I guess you would call this full-scale doodling. It is a little more work up front, but it helps me to avoid mistakes later on.

[Thump]

Tom no I never figured the veneer was hiding stuff, though I can see its value. Fixing mistakes until I'm mostly satisfied is definitely something I'm familiar with. Making them in the first place is what caused the spiral toward insanity, but this was my first attempt at speakers plus first attempt using several tools and gadgets purchased for the procedures.

It boiled down to being way to hard on myself I think. I bet that's common. I know it is for artists - I married one.

I look forward to making more speakers and XO as I want the process to focus on fun as a priority, regardless what happens during.

[tomzarbo]

Interesting reading how you guys start the building ball rolling.

It's kind of amazing how different many of us approach this. We can probably find a bit of others' thought processes in our own way of looking at beginning a project.
Like Wolf, I sometimes just want to try something difficult and new to see if I can do it or figure out the easiest (less complicated) way of doing it. Every once in awhile, a specific used dictates form and price point; or sometimes it's a "Let's use this driver sitting on my dusty shelf finally" motivation.

Also, Thump, I'm a hack woodworker, I make a lot of mistakes and used to sweat it, but not anymore. The best woodworkers are really the ones that are good at and creative with fixing mistakes. Why do you think I always use veneer on most of my builds? Ever wonder what's under them? I do sympathize with the quest for perfection taking some of the fun out of the process, but personally I've never made a mistake that I couldn't fix up to my satisfaction, and the more you do it, I suspect that will be the same experience you end up having.

I've been at the mall with my wife and saw something interesting that I thought would be cool to integrate into a speaker. A store front display was the partial inspiration for one of my as-of-yet unfinished copy of Wolf's N.E.H.D. speakers.

I also find it interesting how so many of you guys have a certain "Look" to your speakers after several builds... a 'style' that I'd liken to maybe an auto makers "Design Language" that carries through to all of their models they sell.... All different, but with some design similarities that make you think there's similar DNA in all of them.

I really admire you guys who can do a design within the parameters of the Indiana DIY themes... that's real creativity there!
I only made it there once, but was amazed at the different paths you guys took to get there. What a contrast... "extreme constraints can yield extreme creativity."

Thanks for the input guys, I've enjoyed reading about them. I've learned so much from you guys over the years and appreciate all of your help getting me up to speed.

TomZ

[6thplanet]

I'm on Tom's boat, scribbles and doodles. Then if it interests me enough, I make it reality.

[Paul K.]

Wow, Marty, you certainly made my day! I'm pretty sure I've never been called brilliant before at doing anything. I do take a number of photos during a build but not as many as several others do (sometimes because I'm afraid I'd be laughed at the way I do things ) and I wait until the project is finished before posting anything about it. Your compliment is greatly appreciated.
Paul

Thought Number One: What did I just see online or in person that inspired me? What did I see in the new car commercial? The swoop of the fender, the squared-off nose, what inspired me? Something Dan N. built? Something that's rattled around in my head since the 70's? Will function follow and acquiesce to form, or the other way around?

Thought Number Two: What will its application be? Will I gift it? Sell it? Keep it?

Thought Number Three: What will the budget be? Where in the pecking order of my designs do I want this to fall? Will this be a little Copper Project (for $250 in drivers and parts) or something grander along the scale of the Stormtroopers ($1k) from 2014? Thought Three-A: Have I done this before and could I have done it better?

Thought Number Four: Will I show it at an event, or is it just something to play with for awhile then move on? (I dumped the carcasses of three builds in the trash last week. Only one made it to a presentable stage.)

My new Iowa Project is definitely Three-A this year, something I've built, disliked, then built and disliked again. This year form follows and compliments function.

That's my rumination process. Once I have a mental picture I try to put it to paper, then select the appropriate drivers and craft the final design from their needs. The one thing I neglect to do is document the build process and create a log of what is done and why. If I get three pictures of the build it's well documented in my world! (BTW: Paul Kittinger is brilliant at this - I wish I had his scientific mind!)

[martyh]

Thought Number One: What did I just see online or in person that inspired me? What did I see in the new car commercial? The swoop of the fender, the squared-off nose, what inspired me? Something Dan N. built? Something that's rattled around in my head since the 70's? Will function follow and acquiesce to form, or the other way around?

Thought Number Two: What will its application be? Will I gift it? Sell it? Keep it?

Thought Number Three: What will the budget be? Where in the pecking order of my designs do I want this to fall? Will this be a little Copper Project (for $250 in drivers and parts) or something grander along the scale of the Stormtroopers ($1k) from 2014? Thought Three-A: Have I done this before and could I have done it better?

Thought Number Four: Will I show it at an event, or is it just something to play with for awhile then move on? (I dumped the carcasses of three builds in the trash last week. Only one made it to a presentable stage.)

My new Iowa Project is definitely Three-A this year, something I've built, disliked, then built and disliked again. This year form follows and compliments function.

That's my rumination process. Once I have a mental picture I try to put it to paper, then select the appropriate drivers and craft the final design from their needs. The one thing I neglect to do is document the build process and create a log of what is done and why. If I get three pictures of the build it's well documented in my world! (BTW: Paul Kittinger is brilliant at this - I wish I had his scientific mind!)

[wogg]

Step 1 - I need a speaker for some purpose, or someone else does, or I think I may have a purpose someday

That drives the size of the enclosure, which drives the driver options

Step 2 - What drivers will work

Model a bunch of woofers mostly, pick others from spec sheets / manufacture graphs, random opinions, aesthetics, inexplicable gut feelings

Step 3 - More modeling

Attempt a paper design with models, will they all work together? Iterate cabinet dimensions, baffle layout etc.

Step 4 - Actually buy stuff

This is where it hits the pavement, and I haven't done enough ground up designs to have a process here. Many times, the whole thing stalls before this step. Moving toward buy, build unfinished, measure, design x-over, finish

The designs are always based on something I need, or would like to have, and limited by what I could actually pull off for assembly and afford for budget.

and...
Step 5 - ?
Step 6 - Profit!

[djg]

Agreed that princess phone is useless, however I can use that jack if you are ready to get rid of it.

That's a trimline, not a princess. It will be obsolete before it ever breaks.