Tang Band SUG2-11 advice, tweaks, & suggestions welcome

**bbnet** · 11-27-2018, 01:11 AM

Here's the pertinent info from link above:

Technical Parameters
PRODUCT NO.ï¼š SUG2-11
DESCRIPTIONï¼š 6.5" 2 Way Floor-Standing Enclosure
RATED POWER INPUTï¼š 50 W
FREQUENCY RESPONSEï¼š 38~20K Hz
RESONANCE FREQUENCYï¼š 38 Hz
NOMINAL IMPEDANCEï¼š 4 Î©
CROSSOVER POINTï¼š 2.9K Hz
CABINET SIZEï¼š 220*220*1000 mm (WxDxH)
CABINET VOLUME: 30L
PORT: 165mm(length) x 86mm(diameter)

**bbnet** · 11-27-2018, 02:07 AM

... and here's the tech specs for the drivers:

TWEETER
SIZEï¼š25mm
CATEGORYï¼šTweeter
DIAPHRAGM MTLï¼šCeramic
SURROUND MTLï¼šFabric
NOMINAL IMPEDANCEï¼š6 Î©
DCR IMPEDANCEï¼š5 Î©
SENSITIVITY 1W/1mï¼š90 dB
FREQUENCY RESPONSEï¼š700-30K Hz
FREE AIR RESONANCEï¼š700 Hz
VOICE COIL DIAMETERï¼š25.4 mm
AIR GAP HEIGHTï¼š2 mm
RATED POWER INPUTï¼š8 W
MAXIMUM POWER INPUTï¼š80 W
TYPE OF MAGNETï¼šNeodymium
FERROFLUID ENHANCEDï¼šYes
Levcï¼š0.003 mH
Zoï¼š9 Î©

WOOFER
SIZEï¼š6"
CATEGORYï¼šWoofer
DIAPHRAGM MTLï¼šPaper
SURROUND MTLï¼šRubber
NOMINAL IMPEDANCEï¼š4 Î©
DCR IMPEDANCEï¼š3.4 Î©
SENSITIVITY 1W/1mï¼š88 dB
FREQUENCY RESPONSEï¼š40-5K Hz
FREE AIR RESONANCEï¼š40 Hz
VOICE COIL DIAMETERï¼š38.5 mm
AIR GAP HEIGHTï¼š22 mm
RATED POWER INPUTï¼š50 W
MAXIMUM POWER INPUTï¼š100 W
FORCE FACTOR, BLï¼š5.12 TM
TYPE OF MAGNETï¼šFerrite
MOVING MASSï¼š14.97 g
FERROFLUID ENHANCEDï¼šNo
SUSPENSION COMPLIANCEï¼š1055 uMNÂ¯Â¹
EFFECTIVE PISTON AREAï¼š0.014 MÂ² Levcï¼š0.084 mH
Zoï¼š28 Î©
X-maxï¼š8 mm
Vasï¼š29.38 Litr
Qtsï¼š0.43
Qmsï¼š3.58
Qesï¼š0.49

**Chris Roemer** · 11-27-2018, 03:06 AM

I'll stick my neck out...

Nice drivers. Nice box and tuning.
I'd probably change the XO some.
A sim (using the TB plots, and their filters) doesn't end up looking like their system plot.
Don't see much (if any) BSC.

Here's what I'd change -
HP: I'd use a 6.8uF cap and a 0.60mH coil (making a lower Q "knee"). The padding looks OK.
LP: Larger coil - a 1.5mH, cap's OK.
I'd add a Zobel using 8ohms+22uF to get a nice rolloff.
I'd also throw a tiny notch (tank) cap across the coil, a 0.47uF works pretty well.
(compared to the TB XO, mine pulls the 4k peak down an additional -18dB, and the 8k peak another -13dB)

Now, with BSC, it looks like 84dB w/full BSC, crossing lower near 2k, which is better for an 8" woofer anyhow (instead of 3k).

**Wolf** · 11-27-2018, 06:55 AM

That tweeter will likely require a 2.5k+ xover point, Chris. A lot of their smaller neo-tweeters fit this mold, and it's a 6.5" woofer, not an 8".
I might tackle this model later myself for an alternate starting point...
Later,
Wolf

**Chris Roemer** · 11-27-2018, 09:24 AM

I guess my "2am brain" DID think that looked like a huge motor (for an 8" driver! - NOT) Plus the big box reinforced my "err".
My Fc might be at 2.2k, but the tweeter's down -27dB at Fs. (seems like it ought to be happy with that?)

**bbnet** · 11-27-2018, 10:57 AM

Thanks for your input & efforts Chris & Wolf!

Note that I'd like to keep the efficiency near or above 85db/w/m since neither driver is high power rated and will be driving with lower power amp.

**Wolf** · 11-27-2018, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Chris Roemer

I guess my "2am brain" DID think that looked like a huge motor (for an 8" driver! - NOT) Plus the big box reinforced my "err".
My Fc might be at 2.2k, but the tweeter's down -27dB at Fs. (seems like it ought to be happy with that?)

It's more due to the rising HD that the TB small neo tweeters exhibit. Really- 2.5k+ is optimal for this reason, as it does not have much to do with the Fs in this case.

bbnet-
I really don't think that 85dB sensitivity will be possible with this set of drivers once you factor in BSC. Being that the output is 90dB for the woofer at 200Hz as a usual reference, and that BSC is normally -6dB in most cases, 84dB would be my best guess. However, once modeled with parasitic DCR losses and wire length, you're likely only going to get 82-83dB.

I'll hold off on the simulation since it seems this project will not meet your goals.

If you don't mind the recommendation, I would suggest my Nephila project. It is not easy to get a standard svelte TM tower to achieve an 86dB sensitivity due to BSC and average sensitivity of a 6.5" woofer. In my Nephila build, I think I came out about 85dB, which is higher than normal.

Later,
Wolf

**bbnet** · 11-27-2018, 09:06 PM

Wolf,
That Nephila is very nice and pushes many of my buttons in a good way. Now I'm in a conundrum, thx ... lol

Will likely get new amp to suit either and keep my little one in the bedroom, seems at 50 watts and 83db efficiency, peak spl should reach 95db which is more than enough for my living room where I plan to place these (roughly 15'x24'x8' with speakers placed 10'-12' about 3' off long wall). So efficiency isn't that critical.

The intp in me says to stay loyal to parts express and tang band. The gen x is me says to do something original.

The Nephila likely has a better top end but i'm a lil concerned about potentially narrower horizontal dispersion and fragility/durability (6 year old plays with dials and poof goes the more expensive tweeter)?

The SUG2-11+ might pull off a better bottom end? I won't be incorporating a sub.

Midrange might be a tossup between the two?

My music tastes these days are mostly reggae, classic & modern rock/synth pop, and fusion jazz (in that order). Especially enjoy good female singers also. So the mids followed by the bottom followed by the top in priority for me I suppose.

I dunno, more or less coin flip for me atm but still slightly leaning towards the SUG2-11+

...
Ps - here's my little work radio with your dragon foals, pardon the dust, when i show it off i ussually keep the sub off at first and folks are like 'wow that sounds great!' then i crank up the sub and it's like 'holy sh__!'

Tang Band SUG2-11 advice, tweaks, & suggestions welcome

Tang Band SUG2-11 advice, tweaks, & suggestions welcome

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